[00:00:00] Mia Fileman
Are you tired of empty promises and stolen ideas? Me too. Got. Marketing is a podcast for marketers and small brands who want real talk and clever strategies without the bs. Running an online business is hard, but everything gets easier when your marketing starts performing. I am Mia FileMan, your straight shooting campaign loving friend here to talk marketing, running a business, pop culture, and everything in between.
Let's dive in.
Hello, friend, what have you built a business that felt good without scaling, launching, or burning out? Today I am joined by someone who's been calling out the BS in the online business space long before it was trendy and even long before me.
Maggie Patterson
The culture of entrepreneurship really conditions us to think we have to constantly be growing when most people start their business for very practical reasons.
Mia
This is Maggie Patterson. She's the founder of BS Free Business, and she hosts two brilliant podcasts. Confessions of a micro business owner and the brand new staying solo. She has also just released her book Staying Solo, and that's why I wanted to chat with her today. The book is a guide for service providers who are done with the hustle, the hype, and the pressure to scale. If you are craving a business that's intentionally small, you are going to love this chat. Welcome to Gut Marketing, Maggie.
Maggie
I'm really excited to be here. Thanks for having me, Mia. I'm so excited to meet you. I have been a long time follower of your work and I am so excited to introduce you to the gut marketing audience.
Mia
For those who haven't come across you yet, how do you describe the work that you do?
Maggie
So I work with micro business owners. Everything from micro agencies that are, you know, five, six employees right through to people who are literally a team of one. And over my 20 years of self-employment, I've had a variety of different businesses, more employees, less, you know, I've done all the things and what I've really.
Come to understand from the people I work with is that most people wanna stay intentionally small. They don't start their business because they wanna build something big. But the common business advice, the culture of entrepreneurship, really conditions us to think we have to constantly be growing when most people start their business for very practical reasons. Like, I don't wanna commute to my job anymore. I need more flexibility because of my partner. I've got a chronic illness, like I've got small children. There's. These very practical reasons. We wanna have something that allows us to make a living. But all the messaging out there is like, when are you gonna hire employees?
When are you gonna do this? And kind of like you're not a legitimate business. And the reality is, if you look at the stats in the US is 80% of businesses are one person businesses. And that's true in most of the Western world. So like why is the conversation like at the Shark Tank dragons den level of like you need to be a billionaire, when really it's like people who are literally just replacing their salary and like how can people build businesses in a way that works for them so they actually have a life?
Mia
Oh, I love that so much. And it's true in Australia as well. Yeah. In your view, why has small become a dirty word then in business?
Maggie
Well, you know, it's really, there's a lot of facets to it. I mean, it's the natural outgrowth of capitalism, right? Like the idea that bigger is better. We are conditioned to want to consume and keep buying more things. And what we see in entrepreneurship is there is literally an an industry around entrepreneurship that is designed to sell us product. So these celebrity entrepreneurs, which is what I kind of, you know, is my catchphrase for these people, they condition us to think that we have to grow because if we have to grow, we need their masterminds, we need their course, we need their $50,000 retreat on some island, and it's to just guess us in this cycle of conspicuous consumption instead of [00:04:00] actually doing the work to build the business a way that is. Sound and has a really, really good foundation and honestly is kind of boring.
Mia
Yeah, really boring. I call them gurus. And what's really interesting is that a lot of people have thought that that's what they wanted. And so they tried. Yeah. They went and created online courses because they were told they were going to make money in their sleep and be wildly successful.
And they have tried launching digital products. And realize that 20 hours of upfront work goes into building a good digital product, and then you're only just getting started. Then you have to market it. So we are trying this model that is being sold to us, but it is failing. So I would love to know from you, what is an alternative to a profitable, sustainable business?
Maggie
I love that you asked this question because the majority of people start their business doing something that is around their skills, their talents, their strengths. Like I know my background was in PR and communications, so that's how I started my business. So we start with services, but services, especially in [00:05:00] the entrepreneurship community, in the online business community is really seen as a stepping stone to something else.
When the reality is, is the majority of businesses. Are not product businesses. They're not digital product businesses. Again, they are built on professional services. You know, whether that's you're a VA or a copywriter, or you're doing ads consulting or any type of consulting or coaching or you know, really done for you creative services.
And I think what we tend to think is, oh, well, we have to grow that when really no one's going to someone who owns a 50 person creative agency and being like, you know what? You need to create a digital course so you haven't made it. So like why have we been conditioned to think this? And it's, you know, it's interesting in that we do not have to outgrow it.
And the conversation I often find myself having with clients is they feel like if they don't do these things, they're playing small. And I'm like, you're not playing small. You have a lot of gas. Left in the tank, you have not outgrown your services. Yeah. You could step up and do more high-end consulting.
You could work with more corporate clients. Like there's so many levers. We have to not constantly have to work more to actually make more money and to sustain ourselves and have a salary that actually lets us have, you know, the kind of life we would've had if we'd stayed in our nine to five.
Mia
I love that.
Maggie
Or even better.
Mia
I agree. But I'll play devil's advocate for a minute. What about those people who say, well, if you do that and you have a traditional. Service-based business, you are trading time for money and if you don't work, you don't make money. And so your revenue is capped at how many hours you can work.
Maggie
You know, it's a really nuanced conversation and I always say like every business is trading time for money. It's just where are you trading the time? Are you trading the time and the service delivery? Or like the example you used a few minutes ago, the 20 hours up front to create a digital product. Yeah.
You just created the digital product and that's 20 hours and you haven't made a penny now. Oh wait, do you have an audience? Do you have a community? Do you have buyers? Have you validated this? Oh, there's another 20 to 30 to 50, whatever hours. So you like, you might be 50 to a hundred hours in before you even made a penny.
Whereas if you're doing services, you would've been making money all along. So I think it's really easy to be seduced into the digital product dream, if you will. But at the end of the day, a lot of people don't understand the complexity. Of the marketing and how in a lot of places the market's already really saturated.
You are not necessarily going to have the wild success that these people are pitching you on the internet.
Mia
Oh, 100%. I completely agree. And we don't talk about enough how much marketing needs to go into digital products, online courses and memberships. Like I'm a professional strategic marketer. I've got two degrees and I love marketing and even still the amount of marketing required is.
Actually quite eye watering and people don't realize that. Meanwhile, when I ran an agency, I could sit across the table from someone, have a coffee, discuss their objectives, discuss my service offerings, walk away an hour later with a $3,000 a month retainer to do their marketing. Mm-hmm. That might take six to nine [00:08:00] months to convert that person. Online. Yeah, because you know, like you said, it's quite saturated. It's really hard to build trust online. So I'd love to know from you, in terms of like staying solo, what are some ways to make great money without scaling? What does that look like in practice?
Maggie
It's a number of things. I feel like at the very fundamental level, one of the big things I have observed, and I'm sure you've seen this too, Mia, is people are struggling with their services because of pricing, because of boundaries, because of.
Scope creep because of the interpersonal stuff with clients, and it becomes really enticing and alluring to be like, Ooh, that would be easier. But those things don't just magically go away. If you switch up your business model, like you're still gonna have those challenges. I said this on social media a couple weeks ago.
I was like, if you're bad at boundaries. Like now, like good luck moderating a group of paying customers. It's gonna be sheer chaos. It's gonna be like my local buy nothing group on Facebook, which is a disaster. Like it's just people, my community buy nothing. Group is quite the thing. I should probably [00:09:00] study it and write something about it. But you look at those skills and you're like, okay, instead of getting better at those skills, building better boundaries, communicating better with clients, scoping our projects better, pricing things appropriately, those are small lever points we have in the business. That we often overlook and like I look at my clients, the smallest things are the things that make the biggest difference. Like, okay, you're not gonna work with that type of client anymore. You're gonna communicate your boundaries better. Oh, you're actually gonna charge more for when you do strategy work. And that when you're a small business. Those small things add up really, really quickly over time, and that's where really you get the leverage, and that's where we get people that are making you know more money than they probably would've.
Ever incorporate, and I'm not like making an income claim here, but they're making a, a professional level salary from something they've created themselves. And I feel like that is really an untapped market. Everyone feels like, oh, I can't make any more with services. And I'm like, wait a second. Yes you can.
And by the way, maybe it's not about making more, maybe it's about working less. Maybe it's working with different types of clients. Maybe you're gonna switch things up, like we've got all these [00:10:00] ways we can do this. But unfortunately the market is very much like you're a baby business owner and here's all this training.
Here's your big scaled company. There's not a lot of conversation in the middle for people who are experienced, are really professional in what they're doing, but like how do they just make that better versus turning it into something different? That is such a good point. I love those examples. People can just take those to the bank.
Mia
Yeah. I ran a marketing agency for seven years. And I had two children while running that agency. And I'm also a defense partner, so we move around every couple of years. And so running an agency model with staff and you know, bricks and mortar offices was just not the right model for me. But the reason why this agency started becoming unprofitable was because we were over-servicing. Every client, we signed a 20 hour a month retainer and we were doing 30 hours a month because we were so mortally afraid of losing the client, introducing a capacity planner into the agency and bringing everything back to this is what they're [00:11:00] paying for, this is what they're getting. Suddenly this agency was profitable again. So like I love. Those specific examples that you gave about, Hey, the solution is not necessarily having to just throw the baby out with the bath water and go to an online course model. It is about optimizing what you've already got going.
Maggie
Yeah, and I love Mia that you brought up the capacity piece because that is, and there's a chapter.
The space chapter in my book where we talk about capacity and like understanding that there are going to be different constraints at different times in your business. You know, different seasons of your life are gonna impact that in terms of how much time, you know, you're a defense partner, so you're moving, you know, when you're shifting around, that's gonna impact the work you can take on.
So like how do you maneuver? Your capacity according to not just your time, but your life commitments, your energetic capacity, your emotional capacity, even your sensory capacity. Looking at all of that and being like, I know like, hey, if I work do more than 20 hours of writing work in a week, I am going to create crappy work.
Which creates issues with my clients. So how do I build the business around knowing that is my capacity for that kind of deliverable work? Yeah. And a spoiler alert for anyone who does deliverable work, it's not whatever hour, number of hours you work. Yeah. In a week. Like if you work 30 hours, it's probably 15 hours of actually really good quality deliverable time.
Mia
Totally. 100%. Have you ever been in a situation, Maggie, where you felt pressured to grow beyond what you wanted? How did you. Let's get Passal.
Maggie
Yeah, I think it's really interesting. So I started my business 20 years ago. I had a little a we one at home, and I was like, I had a partner who worked shift work.
He was very over committed in our world. I'm like, I cannot do this commuting anymore. I cannot do this. Driving for work started my business and I freelanced for like eight, nine years and then I kind of fell into the online business world and I was like, well, I'm excited. Experienced, I know what I'm doing, no problem.
And at the time I ended up actually working behind the scenes doing a number of content and copy things for [00:13:00] some big name, I'm gonna use air quotes here, big name coaches. And I saw how the sausage was being made and I was like, I do that. And you know, through a number. I had some really great coaches and consultants, but I had a couple that were not amazing and I was convinced I should have this.
Signature course. I still stand by. It was a really great course. I did not amazing with it, but like, you know, I think for most people they would've been very happy with those results. I, my expectations were skewed, but I came to realize like, I'm actually really good at services. That is what I've grown up my entire career doing.
Like I know client services, I know how to have a difficult conversation with a client. I know how to pick up the phone and phone a CEO of a client and say, you know what? This is a terrible idea. I don't recommend you do this. So I was like, why am I doing something that is not in my zone of genius that is requiring so much marketing effort?
I can sign one retainer client for five or $10,000 a month and coast on that for like five years. Why am I trying to go find people to buy something for 4 97?
Mia
Yeah, I've got a similar story. So my signature course was campaign classroom. It was, it's excellent. It really is. It's a 10 week learn how to create an integrated marketing campaign from Go to Woe.
I'm, you know, I've been running campaigns for 22 years for some of the world's biggest brands, and a campaign classroom was really successful, but it was cohort based. So I needed to get 25 people to spend, you know, $3,000 at one time. A really like concentrated effort to get. 25 people bums on seats. And then, you know, I'd, I would run a campaign and it would be a full week campaign with all the bells and whistles.
And then when I'm like, oh, I did it. I got 25 people, this is awesome. I'm like, well now you have to teach it. Like, and so then we would actually start this 10 week cohort and then I would have two weeks break and I would have to go again. And campaign classroom was really successful. And I was getting those 25 people and it was getting easier.
But you know what I realized at the end of 10 weeks, that was it. Bye-bye. Those people. And I'm like, I've really enjoyed their brands. I've gotten to know these people and I feel like we've just scratched the surface in 10 weeks and now I don't have anything. I don't do anything for them. And so I was like, this kind of sucks.
Like, are you telling me I'm never gonna get to work with Kelly from little human linens again? Like I, I got really invested in that and. So like you, I came to the realization it's just really not for me. I wanted to work deeper with those clients over a much longer period of time.
AD
Does your marketing feel like guesswork?
Be honest. Join Marketing Circle the membership for female entrepreneurs who wanna nail their strategy, boost their creativity, and create marketing that actually pays off. No cookie cutter templates and broken dreams, just practical marketing, training, mentoring and support To help you grow your business, you'll work directly with me, a legit marketing expert, and tap into a brains trust of clever business owners who bring their expertise, ideas, and support to the table.
We are capped at 45 members, so apply to join today.
Maggie
I think the interesting thing is there's that realization of like, this is not the right thing for me. But I think the flip side is a lot of people start this not realizing, like we touched on earlier, the level of marketing and sales effort that goes into it.
And even for professional marketers. Like people have literally, like you and I have spent their careers in marketing or marketing adjacent areas. How much work it is to do this for yourself and how many resources are involved, how time intensive it is. I think a lot of people get into that and they realize, oh, my job now is not doing my craft.
My job is marketing.
Mia
Yeah. And I think to a certain degree that is the case for everyone, and we do need to accept that even if you're a lawyer or you're an accountant, that marketing is now part of your job. It doesn't need to be 75, 80 5%, I mean, no, unless you have one of these. Online [00:17:00] business models that you need that.
Maggie
Well, I also think the other thing is too, like if you think of your agency days, right? Looking at lifetime customer value, what is the lifetime customer value of a client you've signed for five years? That's $5,000 a month. That was like two conversations and you're in. Versus someone who you maybe are gonna sell three, four, $5,000 worth of digital products over the entire.
Span of their lifecycle with you. You have to be able to scale your numbers, and I think a lot of people don't realize that
Mia
Dodgy marketing tactics and you've been doing this for a really long time. I get some pushback. I'm sure you do too. The question that, oh yeah. The question that I get is, why do you care so much, Mia?
Maggie
You know, it's a really good question, and number one, it's a question I, I feel like I've had and I have had pushback and for me it's usually coming from people who don't know me well or don't know anything about anything else I'm doing.
Like, you know, why aren't you focusing on climate change? You don't know what I'm doing on the weekends. You don't, so please stop. Like maybe I'm about picking out garbage, making my, maybe I'm putting up signs for my local election. You don't know. So people on the internet love to cast dispersions and like decide who we are.
But for me, as someone who has a background in communications, understands persuasion, understands what good normal marketing looks like, and you know what real sales processes look like, I know this is wrong and I, I can see. Spot it a mile away. Like I just, I'm like, some people will be like, I feel like something's slightly wrong, and I'm like, oh, it's this, this, and this, and they're using this tactic.
They're like, I can see it in a way. A lot of other people don't, and I'm sure it's the same for you. You're like, oh yeah, the, they're using this little persuasion hack here. So I feel like for me to educate consumers is actually not that heavy of a lift, and it's also incredibly rewarding to know that I work with so many service providers who are.So good at what they do, but they just don't get the respect they deserve. They don't get the attention they deserve. I wanna see them be the people that are getting people who have money to spend versus them giving it away to these celebrity entrepreneurs, to these gurus who are literally scamming people out of their last dollar.
Mia
I think people know that something's not right, but why do they override that Maggie? Like if it sounds too good to be true, it is. But why? Why do they just. Push that feeling aside and not listen to that intuition that tells them this is a scam.
Maggie
You know, it's a really interesting thing that we see happening, and if you really pay attention, is the way the marketing and sales tactics are deployed by these people.
It's really to override that. It's everything is like done in hyper. Speed. It's there to hijack our critical thinking so that even if you go, oh, it doesn't seem right. You're like, oh, there's a just, there's just enough to get you to take action. And they [00:20:00] don't want you to go talk to somebody. They don't want you to think about it.
There's, that's why there's so much scarcity, there's so much urgency. And also this, um, narrative that if you don't invest, like there's a story around that and then they love to pair it with a story their dramatic. Story or their rise, um, how they spent $80,000 and they're broken, living in a car. Like there's always a justification for what most people would see as a risky or irrational decision.
Mia
So what are some practical strategies that you think people can use to avoid falling for this guru style? Is it naming these tactics? 'cause I've seen you do it where you sort of spotlight them and you give them a name and you're like. Oh, they just tried that on me. But what is a good way to avoid falling victim to these guru type strategies?
Maggie
I love this question because they're relatively simple, but they take some discipline. So the first thing is knowing they want you to move quickly. [00:21:00] Move slowly decide to be very, very deliberate. So, you know, there is nothing wrong with if you see a program opening and it's closing tomorrow and you need time to consider it, let it go for next time.
And if there is no next time, that should tell you something right there. Taking the time to really watch people get to know people beyond the shiny veneer. Go poke around. Who did they learn from? From how long have they been around? Like, you know, go like play internet detective, because you can start to quickly see some of the things.
And one thing I always love, I will watch people for quite some time because I'm in the business of critique and the stories change. They change really quickly. It goes from, I was making this to, I was making the, and I'm always like, wow, there's a lot of inconsist. And I feel like if you just slow down and spend some time watching people, you'll be like, Ooh, I see it in action.
The other thing is a really practical thing is set a budget for what investments you're gonna make for the year or the quarter. Decide in advance what those are gonna be like. Do I need training in a very specific thing? Like do I [00:22:00] need to understand more of LinkedIn because I'm a social media manager for my career?
Clients, do I need skills? Do I need community? Like what are the things you actually need in terms of support in your business? And support is one of those things I think we think about when it comes to our business in a specific, like, I am investing in X or Y for my business when sometimes the best support you could have is maybe you need more help at home.
Maybe you need meal prep. Maybe you need a mother's helper after school. School for your kids. So looking at support in a different way, and there is an entire chapter on support to get people thinking about that differently. Not everything has to cost a five figure thing, and not everything has to be about your business for you to have the support you need with the ecosystem around your business.
Mia
I love that so much. Like I think the biggest red flag to me is that you are not buying anything tangible. You are buying a lifestyle. Yes. What are you shopping for? Like I love what you said, like are you looking for. Specific skills in LinkedIn or campaign marketing or strategy, or are you just buying into somebody's version of, uh, a, you know, a seven figure lifestyle?
Maggie
Yeah. You can't buy the lifestyle. Like if you're enticed by the fancy mansion and the fancy car and the private jet, like that's not what they're selling. They're selling you a dream and you have to ask, am I going to benefit from this or am I just making them richer? Yeah. And I don't like making people richer that already have resources.
Mia
Totally. Totally. Alright, so we've spoken about a couple of the guru tactics. You know, this kind of invented urgency, like trying to get you to do it really quickly so that you can override your critical thinking. Is there anything new that you've discovered lately that we should be aware of? I found one yesterday.
Ooh. I knew it existed, but I heard a term that I was like, oh, I've never heard that term before. That. So true. It is paying for proximity. So you are, yes, I talked to that a ton. Yeah. Do you? Okay. Yeah. So I was like, that is so true. You're just paying to be in a room with that [00:24:00] person. Yeah, yeah. Not to actually walk away with any, so I'd love to know from, from you, what else.
Should be on our radar.
Maggie
Yeah. Well, I mean, honestly, the paying for proximity thing is really sneaky. So I think that's a good, I love that you brought that one up because why am I joining this? And it's the idea you need, you know, the whole Napoleon Hill, which no one should be listening to Napoleon, anything from a Napoleon Hill book in this day and age, but like you are the five people you spend the most time with.
Like, if that's. I, I'm in trouble then because it's my husband and my cats. I've got problems and I'm never gonna succeed. So I don't think that holds water. But in that same vein, you know, in the lifestyle, in the being in the right circles, you know, rubbing elbows with a, it's the income claims for me, that is the one, the dead fire, sure.
Fire giveaway every single time that something is amiss. Why does someone need to tell you how much money they're making so that you believe you can make that money too? Oh, true. It's just, and it, this is literally the practice of, I made 10 KA month, the last four months, so I'm gonna teach you how to do the same.
Just because someone has done that for themselves, you cannot replicate those same conditions. And that to me is. So misleading and so, so sketchy.
Mia
Yeah, I completely agree. As soon as I see income claims I'm out, I also wanna accept those kind of people to work with me. When I have a moment of weakness, Maggie, sometimes I go and I comment on some people making income claims just because I want the comment to be there for other people.
And I say things like, just for clarity, could you please tell me whether this claim that you made $70,000. In your last launch is representative of the average of what your customers would make, and then it of course, inevitably results in the other guru tactic, which is to gaslight you. So to find a way to shut me down so that I am discredited from asking a very.
Reasonable question. And so like when I did this recently with an Australian guru, her issue was the [00:26:00] fact that I wasn't following her. So if I'm not following you, I don't get the right to ask you a question on the internet. But what I really love is that my comment is still there and it's. Been liked by like 25 people.
And I like that the comment is there because often people are afraid to leave negative comments on other people's posts because they feel they're gonna get shut down. Like gurus do not handle criticism in any way. It's like a cult, and there's a cult leader and you are a follower and you cannot. Speak truth to power.
You are on the outside.
Maggie
Yeah. Descent is not accepted and it's labeled in a very sit, so they're mean girls. Yeah. Haters. Like I have been called a mean girl, which is the funniest thing ever because as a practice, I don't name names, I don't call out specific people, but the second I. Say something that is perceived as an attack.
And I always come in very gently when I do, like, I, I try not to be inflammatory about things because I don't want that kind of energy. I've seen people do this very dramatic calling out on the internet and like, [00:27:00] so-and-so's doing this. That does not accomplish things. I want people to understand the tactics.
But to call me a mean girl always kind of just cracks me up because I'm like, you are barking up the wrong tree. Like I am a middle aged Canadian mom of a 20-year-old cat lady. Like I don't have time to be mean. I wanna go read a book and have a cup of tea. Like it's not that deep girls like.
Mia
I have to say, I spent six months in Canada.
They are the nicest people on the planet. They're just so. Nice. So nice. So I completely hear you. All right. What is one hill that you are prepared to die on regarding service-based businesses?
Maggie
Oh, that you don't have to hire a team like I believe in Absolutely getting support. Maybe you need like a part-time assistant or something else, but you don't have to hire to be successful.
The majority of businesses don't. Have employees beside themselves, and that's okay. And I feel like we need to normalize that conversation because when I say that to people, I see the literally like the sigh of relief people have because they're like, oh, I don't have to be [00:28:00] chasing this, this goal. And honestly, the only goal I care about for you is that you are getting what you need from your business, that you have defined what enough is and that you are not chasing after some arbitrary measure of success.
That literally has no bearing on anything, whether the six, seven figure thing, like honestly, you figure out what, what your family needs, what you, what you need to be comfortable on the, in this planet. Like that's all I care about.
Mia
Yeah, same. And what is one underrated decision that you have made to help you stay solo?
Maggie
So, full disclosure, I do have a team. I do, my sister works full time for me, but we are a very small and mighty business. Um, so I always like to put that out there. Oh, cool. Yeah, it's. It's great. I mean, it's amazing, but that's also because I'm running more than one business. I couldn't do everything I do.
If there was just me, that would be, yeah, not recommended actions, but 85% of the people I work with are solo businesses. And I will say the one thing I always is like, you don't need to make big moves. You just need to make. Smart moves. Like [ just make really strategic decisions. Like maybe you've just gotta dial in a little bit of understanding a little more about your client's problems.
Maybe the way you're having your sales conversations need to change it is the small actions that really compound over time. It's like compound interest.
Mia
Love that. Well, it has been an absolute pleasure chatting with you today. I have. Seriously enjoyed it. I'm gonna put in the show notes, all the details about the book, the podcast, bs, free business, anything you would like to leave the audience on today.
If you are someone who is running a solo service business, absolutely check out the podcasting solo, and the book is like the most accessible bite-size way to get more of this. So you can find [email protected]. Amazing. Thank you so much for being so generous with your time and your ideas today, Maggie, it has been an absolute pleasure.
Maggie
Thank you, Mia.
Mia
All right. That's a wrap on today's episode. I'd love to hear whether you agree. Please shoot us an email and we'll get back to you. I'll see you next week. I've started a substack as the ideal companion to the podcast. [00:30:00] It's packed with extra insights, visuals, and nuggets that didn't make it into the episodes.
Plus you can revisit past editions anytime. If you want more or just prefer to read, you'll love it. Plus, it's a place for us to connect. Want the backstage pass to Got Marketing? Subscribe [email protected].
Thank you. You listened right up until the end, so why not hit that subscribe button and keep the good marketing rolling. Podcast reviews are like warm hugs and they're also the best way to support a small business. You can connect with me, Mia FileMan on Instagram or LinkedIn, and feel free to send me a message.
I'm super friendly.
