[00:00:00] Mia:
Are you tired of marketing jargon and empty promises? Me too! I'm Mia Fileman, and this is Got Marketing?, on the show. I deep dive with marketing insiders to unpack successful campaigns. I didn't earn the nickname, the Campaign Lady for nothing. Get actionable tips, learn from winning strategies and avoid falling victim to marketing fads and fakery.
[00:00:30] Mia:
Hello friend. And welcome to Got Marketing?. I have a really. different, special, exciting episode planned today. I have invited my friend who is a professional negotiator and sales strategist onto the show, and we're going to do a mock discovery call. I'm going to be me, and I'm going to try to sell her Into my Marketing Circle membership, and she's going to be a potential customer. And then after we're done with the sales call, she's going to critique my performance. So my heart is racing because I'm really nervous that I'm going to really screw this up while I'm recording on my podcast.
Julia:
People don't like to be sold to, but they love to buy.
[00:01:16] Mia:
That was Julia Ewert. She is a sales strategist and professional negotiator. She's also the author of the book, Pitch to Profit. And has a LinkedIn learning course where she is a LinkedIn learning instructor. Welcome to Got Marketing? Julia.
[00:01:26] Julia:
Thanks Mia. Good to be here today.
[00:01:28] Mia:
Thank you so much for saying yes to this. You work predominantly with medium to large organisations and startups. So I really appreciate that you are coming onto Got Marketing? and helping the small business audience today with sales training.
[00:01:42] Julia:
Yeah, this is a really important topic. And as you know, I genuinely want people to get better at this. Because a lot of people, especially in small businesses, as you know, Mia, have a, an outdated or a really, um, a fear of having sales conversations. In fact, we don't say sales because sales makes us feel a bit gross. So we can say sales because the only word you can replace with sales is revenue. It's the same thing. And I genuinely want, especially people in small business to improve.
[00:02:07] Mia:
Okay. What say you to this idea that I've invested in a sales page and it's beautiful and it's long and it overcomes all the objections that people have working with me. And then I've also got an email sequence and I've, you know, hired someone to write a 10 part email sequence. So why do I need to get on a call with someone?
[00:02:29] Julia:
Yeah, well, a few things that you pointed out in there already that make my heart sing is that first of all, if that's the scenario, good on you for investing in your business. And actually hiring experts to help you. So that is, uh, that's already made my heart sing. Uh, second thing is you're doing some of the right practice or best practice, which is wonderful. The third thing I'll mention, though, whether I offend you or not me, but I feel like we were on the same page here. Marketing's not enough. If you want in your business sustainable, consistent revenue, Then you need a nice combination of marketing and sales. Marketing is the activity to get someone to come to the door. Sales is the one-on-one conversation you have with someone to get them to commit and pay a deposit or lock and load for whatever it is that you're selling.
[00:03:09] Mia:
Oh, we are in lockstep on this. There is no arguments for me. I do a lot of sales. Sales in my business. So, I think that this is perfectly aligned. Okay, great. Well, uh, should we get the torture over and done with?
[00:03:36] Julia:
It will not be torture. I'm just going to try and be a normal type. Uh, well, am I normal? I don't know.Are we all, is anyone normal? I'm going to be an appropriate level of prospect for you. So I'm not going to play super hard ball. I'm also not going to hand it to you on a silver platter because we want the audience to learn a few things here. And if you're too good, Mia, they will learn nothing. So, uh, so. So I will be, uh, appropriate.
[00:03:56] Mia:
Okay. I think the best thing for me to do is just to run the discovery call. Like I would usually run a discovery call and let the chips fall as they may. Yes.
[00:04:02] Julia:
Go for it.
00:04:04] Mia:
Okay. Hi, Julia. So nice to see you.
00:04:07] Julia:
Thanks Mia. Thank you. I've seen your stuff on Instagram and I've seen all your things online and, um, I'm just here to learn today. Like I'm, I'm, I would love someone to help me with my marketing. And I would just love, um, you know, I've got a really great business that I've started a while ago and, you know, I'm really passionate about what I do when I, I love what I do. And, you know, we work with a lot of clients too, when the work we do is really exciting.I just really want to take things to the next level. And that would be really good to talk to you. I'm really excited. Cause I love your Instagram stuff.
[00:04:32] Mia:
I'm thrilled to hear that. Thank you very much. I've also had a little bit of a stalk of your marketing, but this session is for you. So I'd really like to understand what is working in your marketing.
What is not working? Tell me all the things.
[00:04:46] Julia:
Yeah. Uh, do you want me to tell you all the things? Okay, fine. Let's fast forward some of the things. Here are all the things, Mia. There is like 17 of the things. There you go. There's all the things.
[00:04:56] Mia:
Okay. Fantastic. The first thing I will say, Julia, is that going to your website, I am not immediately clear on what's going on. On exactly what it is that you do. What you just explained to me then was really compelling, but that is not coming across on the website. So I think that that would be one of the first things that we work on together. What do you think?
[00:05:14] Julia:
Yeah. I mean, I've spent lots of time and money on that. So yeah, that's surprising when it's not clear.
Yeah. That's um, Yeah.
[00:05:21] Mia:
Okay. Well then is it converting for you? Are you actually getting leads and customers through the website?
[00:05:27] Julia:
Well, not as many as I want. Like I just, I just thought that, you know, I've just been doing a lot of work in my last couple of years on, on all my funnels and other marketing things. And, uh, I, I just, you know, I, Like I'm just not getting enough people through the door. I just want more leads. And, um, you know, I just, I just want some help and, uh, I just thought, you know, I've got some good revenue now and I could just get you to do, do it for me. Actually, that'd be really good.
[00:05:52] Mia:
So I actually no longer provide outsourced marketing services to business owners.
I offer a marketing membership called Marketing Circle. I'm happy to run through some of the details of Marketing Circle with you. But before we get there, I just want us to be mindful of the sunk cost fallacy. So this idea that because we've invested a lot of time and money into something that we need to see it through, even though it's not working.
[00:06:03] Mia:
So just something to be mindful of when it comes to your website, that we've all spent so much money on our website. However, if the results are not there, then that means that there's probably some, some more work still to be done.
[00:06:30] Julia:
Yep. Yep. I have spent a lot though, like I've spent a lot. Yeah,
[00:06:34] Mia:
I understand.
[00:06:35] Mia:
Yeah.
[00:06:35] Julia:
Yeah.
[00:06:35] Mia:
We all have. Totally. Yeah. Okay, so are you interested in learning a little bit more about Marketing Circle?
[00:06:40] Julia:
Mm-hmm . Yeah, sure. You know, that's why I'm chatting to you today. I think. Um. Yeah. Yep. Go for it.
[00:06:44] Mia:
So it is a marketing membership exclusively for female small business owners. And we provide training, mentoring, accountability, and a tight knit community.
So there is everything that you need within the membership to run successful marketing that pays off for your small business. So there are weekly live sessions with me. There's on demand training. Every single month we pop on some headphones, you and I go for a walk and we talk about whatever it is that you want to talk about when it comes to your marketing. And then of course we have a Facebook group where we collaborate and help each other. The membership is capped to 40 members and it is an application to join. So I'm very selective about who we let into the membership so that I can make sure that we have a really good mix of female entrepreneurs that can help Does that sound like something that you would be interested in?
[00:07:50] Julia:
It's, um, I do know I need some help. So yeah, so definitely some parts of what you mentioned would be helpful. Um, I've just done lots of group stuff before and, um, like I've joined groups. I just, I just don't know if they work actually, because yeah, I just said, I just don't know if they work. Like I was probably meeting with you today to see if you could maybe just, you know, work with me just one on one.
[00:07:56] Mia:
Yeah. I've also been in groups that have not met my expectations, but I've also seen the results of Marketing Circle. We have members who have 58 per cent increase in profit in six months. We have someone who's. Email sequence is converting at 81%. The proof is in the pudding. When we grow together, we grow faster.
So I really believe in this group offering. However, bigger is not always better in some of the groups that I've been in. We're talking 500, 600, a thousand people, and you get lost in that. This is a very intimate group. We get to know each other. Very well over the six months.
[00:08:34] Julia:
Okay. I mean, six months is a long time as well. Like I just was looking for probably something faster.
[00:08:40] Mia:
So unfortunately, marketing is not a tap that you can just turn on and off. It takes time to get traction, especially when we go back to your entire marketing foundation. So we're looking at your strategy and messaging, email marketing, campaigns, and always on marketing.
If you are only interested in something for a month or two, then I would say that this is probably not the right fit for you. Our members are with us for a minimum of six months, but actually most of our members have stayed much longer because they continue to see benefit for a Marketing Circle.
[00:09:12] Julia:
I don't know if that's the right thing for me, because I've just seen like, there's so much stuff that I've, I saw a really good post on Instagram just recently where someone was telling me, um, and this person, like they've, they've run a really successful business and you know, they work only a few days a week and they're earning like six figures or more and they seem to do a similar product to what, to what I do and I figured, you know, my product is better than theirs.
So yeah, like, uh, it seems like other people can do it quicker.
[00:09:41] Mia:
Okay, great. Then I would urge you to do your homework because unsurprisingly, many people on Instagram lie. Uh, this is something that I've spoken about a lot throughout my content. And since you follow me, you will see. See that there are a lot of people misrepresenting themselves, misrepresenting their results.
And so I want you to make an informed decision about where the marketing circle is right for you. But I urge you to actually speak to this person, have a look at their testimonials, maybe even reach out to one of their customers and just make the right decision, whether it's me or somebody else, I just want you to make sure that you go into this with full confidence. And of course, if you would like to speak to one or 35 Marketing Circle members, they would be very happy to talk with you.
[00:10:25] Julia:
Okay. Well, that would, that would really be helpful. Okay. So if I do this group, uh, thing that you, that you, that you've got, like, I imagine I get lots of time with you one on one still.
[00:10:34] Mia:
So this is not a one on one coaching program. The power is in the collective. There are much smarter people in this group than me. I am very good at what I do, but we also have creative directors. Web strategists, Meta Ads managers, we've got copywriters and we can pull all of those resources. So yes, there is one on one support and accountability in the form of a monthly walking meeting.But if you are joining this because you want access to me, then again, I don't think that this is the right fit.
[00:11:03] Julia:
Hmm. Yeah. Okay. [moments of silence]
[00:11:08] Mia:
Having a look at your brand, Julia, I think that you would benefit a lot from Marketing Circle so that we can get you ready to be at a stage where you can afford to outsource your marketing. So I meet with people like you every single day and they tell me the same thing. They want it done for them.
Unfortunately, the reality is until our revenue matches what we need it to be, we need to. Do our own marketing. So my goal is to get you to a stage where you can outsource to an agency or a contractor. And then when you do, you know enough to be dangerous.
[00:11:41] Julia:
Hmm. Okay. Um, uh, yeah. Okay. Okay. [moments of silence]
[00:11:47] Mia:
Do you have any other questions for me before you go away and have a think about it?
[00:11:52] Julia:
No, I, yeah, I'll just have a think about it. I think.
[00:11:54] Mia:
Sounds good. Well, my inbox is open and if you would like to get on another call, I'm very happy to. So thank you so much for your time. Honestly, there's no silly questions, so feel free to send me an email and I would be happy to answer them.
[00:12:06] Julia:
Okay. Thanks Mia.
[00:11:54] Mia:
Thank you, Julia. Nice to see you. Bye now.
[00:12:10] Julia:
Alright.
[00:12:12] Mia:
Goodness! Alright, let's go. No, and do not hold back, alright? Do not hold back.
[00:12:16] Julia:
Okay, first of all, I'm going to give you props for actually wanting to be brave enough to do this. The situation you just put yourself in to do this with me, uh, this is hard.
This takes some guts. And, um, before we jumped and for, for me as listeners now, um, before we started recording, I said to me, I give you, you're going to edit this and get me to repeat stuff. And she said, no, we're just going to run the whole thing. So, uh, for all Mia's fans out there, she gets massive props for doing this and not editing it. And I genuinely mean that I'm not blowing smoke. You know, that's not how I roll either. So great job. This is also, I can drop a swear word. Can I drop a swear word? So this, I'm not about to give you a shit sandwich either, where I say, Hey, you did really great and being strong and really brave, but this was really bad, but you know what, go you. So this is, I'm not trying to deliver you a sh*t sandwich. I'm actually suggesting that that was really courageous of you to say, hit me with this. So, you know, feedback is the breakfast of champions. Right? Sometimes it can just be a bit hard to swallow, but it's necessary. It's the most important meal of the day, getting feedback.So I love that you've done that.
[00:13:15] Mia:
Do you know Adam Grant? Do you follow? Huge fan of Adam Grant. And I love the fact that every time he's on a podcast. Every time he delivers a masterclass or a lecture, he will always ask people for feedback. He believes that, you know, supporters are great. Cheerleaders are great, but it's actually the people that challenge us that make us grow. So yeah.
[00:13:35] Julia:
The cool thing about this kind of feedback is that this feedback can actually make you lots of money. And I'm not your mom going, Hey, great job. That was really nice, Mia. You did great. Like I'm not your mom. The feedback that you get from a sales or a strategic sales conversation can actually make you money. So it's feedback that pays you. Right. Um, I want to comment a couple of things. I've made some notes as we go. So what is really important when we have a discovery call with anybody. Now I'm going to separate two parts here of businesses, widgets, non widgets. When we're selling widgets, widgets, you could argue can be sold without a human interaction for someone. So hypothetically, if I was selling, I don't know, water bottles or beautiful stationery for, for businesses, I'd put that in the widget department. I can have a beautiful online store with all the beautiful funnels and everything to help me actually set all that up. If you're selling widgets, we probably don't need to. Speak and engage with someone. So the feedback I'm giving now is to those that are not selling widgets. So if you're selling something that requires interaction with a human, I'm going to give you some sales techniques and skills and some negotiation skills and techniques now that are useful for those scenarios.
So in this example, you're not selling a widget, you're selling something that has a decent price tag on it. And it requires a human interaction. Someone wants to meet you. So when we're in these scenarios, what we want to do first up, give me your agenda. What are we going to cover today? So there's a really great agenda that I use for that. I teach my clients and it goes something like this. So you're going to build some rapport, have some chat for a few minutes. And I'm going to say something like, Hey, uh, Mia, I want to respect the time that you, that you put aside today. Do you mind if we get in mind, if we get started, what will happen is, experience tells me Mia will stop talking and she'll just wait for me now.
She'll put me in the driver's seat. And I'm going to say, well, Mia, I've come prepared today to learn about you and ask you some questions just so I can learn about your business. Based on the things that you share with me today, maybe I could make some recommendations or even give some advice to you.
And then before we finish up, we can talk and agree what any next steps from here might look like. Would that be all right?
[00:16:35] Mia:
Oh, that sounds really good. I thought when you were saying agenda, it's like, we're going to do this, this, this, and this. I'm like, that doesn't sound good, but I like your approach much more.
[00:15:42] Julia:
It's just putting structure to the conversation because. Uh, we were having a bit of, uh, you know, green room chat earlier, Mia, where, you know, the words, you know, manipulation or, or, or cheesiness or something came up. And I said, if it ever feels like that, either you or someone else, they're doing it wrong.
It should feel when you're having these interactions with another human, it should feel like you're having a structured purposeful conversation, but it's really collaborative. It should not feel robotic, but it should feel structured because structure is the opposite of winging it. And if you wing it, you won't win it.
So don't wing it. If you're working for free, then wing it all you like, but if you're not working for free, like stick your hand up, then we need to have some purposeful activity about what we're doing, uh, because these conversations are high stakes. So first thing is, put an agenda in your conversation.
I'm going to roll it again for you. Hey, uh, Mia, I'd like to respect the time that you put aside today. Would it be okay if we got started or just got down to business? I've come prepared to ask some questions to learn about you today and based on what you share with me, Mia, I can make some recommendations or even give some advice.
And before we finish up, we can agree and talk through what any next steps from here would look like. Would that be all right with you?
[00:16:40] Mia:
Sounds good.
[00:16:41] Julia:
Now I've said that that's just called a four step agenda. I've said that a billion times. People will only hear it once, but it should feel like structured, but it shouldn't feel robotic.
So that's the first thing, put an agenda in place for your conversation, so that I know Mia's going to cover everything I'm going to be here for. And if you notice at the start of when Mia welcomed me into her call, I just vomited all over her. And when we can put an agenda in place, it stops you getting hijacked.
So that's probably my first point to call out. That puts you in the driver's seat with a willing passenger. Second thing, and if you remember in that agenda, I've said, I'd like to respect your time to get started. I've come prepared to ask you some questions today. What we need to do, we want to find out all about the other person.
And you prepared and you said, I've done some research on your business, Julia, your marketing looks nice essentially, but it's not clear. You gave some, um, you gave some commentary on that. We want to come prepared and ask questions to begin with. What's really great in this scenario? And, and specifically to this scenario that I'm coaching you on is for you to check my awareness.
So, and essentially you're trying to find out, is Julia deluded or is she here genuinely with an ask for some help? Because if you're talking to someone who's deluded, well, Mia, everything I do is amazing actually. You know, I've spent lots of money on my website and things are, you know, pretty, pretty great they are. That's our hardest thing. sell than someone who's vulnerable and open-minded. Is that fair to say?
[00:17:55] Mia:
Very fair.
[00:17:56] Julia:
And so some questions around awareness are really helpful. Hey, what's working well right now? Tell me what you've done to get to this [00:18:00] point in your, in your, uh, in your business.
[00:18:04] Mia:
Ooh, I love that question. That's really good.
[00:18:03] Mia:
Marketing is a team sport. Join Marketing Circle and set sail with us. As a member, you get access to all our programs, including the beloved Campaign Classroom, our proprietary Campaign Builder. And one-on-one walking meetings with me. Plus, you'll be part of a tight-knit community of savvy entrepreneurs and marketers wearing all the hats, just like you designed for those who want to build standout brands.
Our strategic and creative marketing membership is your ticket to future-proofing your business. No fluff, no false promises, just real actionable strategies that work apply to join Marketing Circle today and let's navigate those marketing stormy seas together.
[00:18:51] Julia:
Tell me some things that you're proud of when it comes to your marketing.
Now, one mistake that I see lots of people making discovery calls. I ask questions for a living questions. The questions that I ask would certainly be a big reason why my conversion ratio is between about 78 and 83%. It's consistently high. It should be, if it's not that high, you shouldn't hire me. So, so my, my ratio is high, but it's based on asking a lot of questions.
Okay. What we should be doing is trying to get ourselves in a position where we can learn what the gaps are. So when we're actually taking someone through and asking questions around, Hey, tell me what you've done so far. What are you proud of? We want to ask questions that help people to reflect on their current situation.
Now, when we're asking good questions, what we want to do is also put some strategic silence into the conversation. I tested you a couple of times, Mia. I sat there and I was like, And I gave you all, because we've got the visual going, so I gave you the impression that I heard you, but I was thinking. And I purposefully said nothing.
What we want to do, is we want to let that silence play out.
[00:19:56] Mia:
That is so hard. That is so hard.
[00:20:00] Julia:
I don't disagree. This is something that sounds simple. It's not easy. Um, and some people often refer to this as the awkward silence. I have good news for anyone out there that is listening that does feel, you know, they're dying on the inside. I've great news. I have researched all the deaths that have ever occurred on the planet Earth. No one has ever died. I've never seen a death certificate that said died from awkward silence. So you're all going to be okay. That includes you Mia. So when that's, when that gap in that conversation comes up, it's cool to just let it ride out.
[00:20:31] Mia:
For how long?
[00:20:51] Julia:
So as long as it takes. I gave you every indication that I was thinking, right? And so if I didn't hear you or if it wasn't unclear, what will I do? Like logically, what would I do?
[00:20:59] Mia:
Ask a question.
[00:21:00] Julia:
Yeah, I'd go, I'm sorry. I don't understand. Could you repeat that? Okay. If we're asking great questions and someone is taking their time to think about it, well, we want to wait. And, but again, it sounds simple, not easy. Yeah. Asking questions more around what has brought me here today. So Julia sounds like things are going well for you. I'm curious. What's brought you here today then? How do you think things can be different for your marketing? Julia, tell me something you're really proud of. Now, one, uh, question that I, I, I didn't close the loop on this before. One question that I see people ask in discovery meetings, especially in these types, is whether you can go down a rabbit warren, which is completely avoidable. So this is the difference between like in this example, Mia asking me the question, so Julia, tell me about your business. How long have you got? Well, Mia, I first started my business in, so Mia doesn't care about that. Here's how you can make a short twist on that. So Julia, tell me about your business in relation to marketing. That's what Mia cares about. So this is the difference between asking good. And great questions. If Mia was to ask me, tell me about your business. We could lose 20 minutes for a whole bunch of stuff that Mia couldn't care less about. What she really cares about is can she help me? And she can only find out she can help me if I talk about marketing. Uh, so again, if you're doing discovery calls, which you should be necessary to pick up the phone, if you're not a widget.
Yeah. Asking questions. Tell me about your business in relation to whatever the thing is. That's what you need to hear about. I'm going to rapid fire some other questions as well. Things like, okay. Tell me what's brought you here today. What is it that, um, what assumptions do you have about the work that I do, that I can help with?
[00:22:36] Mia:
Oh, I love that. That's so good.
[00:22:37] Julia:
This is a really good one. I love this question too. Tell me about what you've tried. Tell me about things that frustrate you or challenge you with your, in this example, in, in your marketing. How long have you had these challenges for? What have you tried? Why is today the right time for a conversation about this?
What is the impact if you get all this right, Julia? And let me ask you, you know, if you did nothing, you know, what's the impact if you're just doing nothing and keep going the way you are with your landing pages the way they are? Okay. And how can I make this a really purposeful conversation for you today?
How can I make this an easy decision for you? Assuming you like what we talk about today, what would be the next steps to help you make a decision here? What barriers might we come up with that would stop this conversation moving forward? So these are questions not necessarily about me helping me with getting to marketing, into Marketing circle.These are questions for me to think bigger picture so that I can decide for myself that Marketing Circle is the answer for me. And this is the difference. Because people don't like to be sold to, but people love to buy. Now I'm conscious that I've talked for a few minutes with no space. So let's open up Mia for some, uh, some conversation on what I've shared so far.
[00:23:34] Mia:
So far, I think it's brilliant. I love that. I love the structure around the agenda. I can imagine myself asking some of those questions. Some of them, like what are some of the decisions that will help us get to a outcome at the end. That's Sounded not aligned. I could, I could rephrase that in my own words, but I definitely see where you're going with this. Just so you know, my strategy is get them talking about themselves. I don't care what they say, even if it's 20 minutes of dribble, people like to be heard, but I actually think that refining that to something useful is actually even better than just to get them talking. So I'm definitely going to do that.
Keep going. This is brilliant.
[00:24:17] Julia:
Okay. All right. So we want to come, um, prepared with a list of questions. So I have my questions on a sheet, people. So even though I've been doing this for a billion years, I have my questions written on a sheet because I'm always prepared to go into a conversation where I can actually make it easy for myself.
So put your great questions on a sheet. Take notes as you go. Taking notes is a sign of respect. It's not a sign that you're not paying attention. It's the complete opposite.
[00:24:35] Mia:
And please don't take digital notes with the clucking of the
[00:24:38] Julia:
Please don't take digital notes. Yes. Yeah. Go old school. Even if we're online, take a pen, write the notes.
People can see that they will receive that far more favorably. Then me typing or looking at other screens. Yep.
[00:24:53] Mia:
Yes. The only thing that passes is a remarkable. You can write it into a remarkable. That's it.
[00:24:57] Julia:
Yep. I'll allow that too. Come prepare with your questions. Take lots of notes. Okay. Something else I'll comment on. What sparked our conversation today, Mia, was that I flicked you a link for, um, an objection handling framework that I have developed. That essentially helps us to have collaborative ways to learn about the things that are on people's minds that are barriers to them moving forward. Okay. Some people call it objection handling.I sent you a link for that and you went, that sounds pretty interesting. Let's talk about that on the podcast. So I'm going to dig into some of that because I threw you some objections in the, um, in our, um, our practice session just now. When we're handling objections, what we want to do is we want to use a framework where we can get to solutions at the end. And again, this follows the principle that I mentioned a moment ago. People don't like to be sold to, but they love to buy. And this is the difference between me. Telling you why you need my product or service and you going, Oh, do you know what I think I need? I actually think I need what you've got and that's far more powerful, far more powerful.
So how we actually tackle those objection conversations can make a real difference for there. So what we want to be doing when we're tackling objections is getting all the concerns upfront. So I threw a few bones in there. I threw you things like, yeah, but I get lots of time with you, don't I? and groups don't work.What we want to do.
[00:26:07] Mia:
Six months is too long.
[00:26:10] Julia:
Ah, too long. I want results now. I'm not waiting six months. When we can recognise that someone's objecting to us, the first thing we have to do, this has a massive degree of difficulty on it. You think the strategic silence part is hard. This is going to up the, uh, the degree of difficulty.
[00:26:29] Mia:
My audience are really smart, so they can handle this.
[00:26:33] Julia:
Okay. And this is something we can practice every day, actually, because I can tell you in a day, loads of people object to you or reject you or disagree with you. This happens all the time. To do this really well in a business setting, we need to practice and get your reps up in non-business settings.
So when someone disagrees or objects to you, the first thing you need to kind of clock Oh, Julia just objected to me and you actually need to do nothing for two seconds because there is a big difference between reacting and responding. And as humans, we are all wired to justify, defend, and react. That's how we're wired.
What we do know is that when we're handling objections where money's at stake, which is exactly what this conversation is, If we handle this incorrectly and we react, what we can do is we can invite conflict or uncountable collaborations into the conversation. We don't want that. We actually want to be able to have great conversations about what's on my mind.
And Mia wants to hear from me all the reservations that I have. So we're going to say something like, Oh, you want to talk about one on one Julia? We can definitely talk about that. Sure. Tell me what else is on your mind. Oh, okay. You tried groups and they, and groups suck. Yeah. Okay. Well, I'm going to make a note of that.
So I'm going to make a, you want one on one that's important to you. You don't like groups. Yeah, Julia, what else is on your mind? Oh, you're looking for fast results? Yeah, got that too. And if you notice, I'm writing stuff down on with my pen on my piece of paper. Yeah. What else is, what other concerns have you got?
So this is called a shopping list. We have to get all those concerns out first before we actually move through the, through our conversation to actually solve them. If we solve too quickly, what [00:28:00] we can find ourselves in is I'm going to get lost as your prospect. I'm going to get lost in the information and I'm just going to keep throwing stuff back at you.
It will constantly feel unresolved.
[00:28:14] Mia:
Interesting.
[00:28:16] Julia:
If I can get all my points out first of what's on my mind, then it makes for a far more collaborative conversation.
[00:28:20] Mia:
I love that. That's very clever.
[00:28:23] Julia:
So how that would play out in real life is, um, if I was Mia, I would say, so Julia, oh, you're interested in one-on-one.
Okay. We can definitely talk about that today. Yeah. Doesn't mean I'm giving it to her, but we're going to talk about it. What else is on your mind? Oh, groups. You don't like groups. Groups are terrible. Fine. Got that too. We'll talk about that. And you want fast results. What else? What else? That's Mia's shopping list.
Eventually she's going to say, no, it's just those three things. So now what I'm going to do is I'm going to ask her permission and say, Okay. Well, Mia, I've captured those three things that seems to be concerns, you know, we should do let's slow the conversation down because I really want to help you solve something here and let's tackle these one by one.
Would that be all right?
[00:28:58] Mia:
I'm loving where this is going.
[00:29:00 Julia:
Because now I know Mia is ready to listen to me because she's, she's been heard. You know, you said before people want to be heard. So now she's been heard. I've asked her what's on your mind. What else? What else? What else? I'm prompting her to get her shopping list.
So now I have free reign to say, well, let's talk about one on one first. I don't do that. And you can deliver that however you like, right? Uh, now I want to talk about the groups and groups don't work. Now we can talk about that. And then to steer or wrap all this up, I might say something like now, if we were in 1980, Mia, I might use some kind of cheesy closing technique that would sound like, so Mia, would you like to sign a contract?
But we're not, we're in 2024. So what we do is we let someone buy, and we say something like, so Mia, we've had, you know, we've talked about the one-on-one, the groups and the fast results. And we've had some good conversation about that. May I can ask you, where would you like to go from here now? Great. And that is far more for all your listeners.
And I'm sure some of you are thinking, Oh my gosh, that is so much more comfortable than saying, so would you like to buy from me? No one says that. Don't say that. So again, we want to use these principles to have far more collaborative conversations.
[00:30:05] Mia:
I've taken like a whole page of notes. Oh, this is gold.
So much gold. Thank you so much. That's incredibly generous. And I think that that's enough for people to chew on in the first instance. What I really love about this is that there is so much scope to make it. You it's not a sales script, which is so lame. Uh, this is like you, I mean, I think I wrote down eight questions, but you said about 12 and on your little sheet that you held up there, there were A lot more than 12.
So it's really up to you to phrase these questions, however you like, but you it's like you're giving them prompts, not, not script. So I think that that's fantastic question for you. Once I asked the question, where would you like to go from here? If someone says, thank you so much, that was really helpful.
I'm going to go away and think about it. Is that, is that it? All good.
[00:30:56] Julia:
I think it's really important that you think about this, you know, this is a big decision for your business. And we want to work with the right kinds of people. Mia, I would love an opportunity to work with you. I genuinely believe I can help you. You know what we should do though, Mia? I'm going to send you some information that you've got something to sit with in your own time. Mia, would you be against it if I suggested we catch up again, um, what day is it today? It's Tuesday. Maybe next Monday, just so I can just, and it might be just be a five minute call, just so I can see how, how things are sitting with you.
Would that be all right, Mia? Yeah. Well, you know, I've got my calendar here. Do you want to whip yours out? Let's be super organised.
[00:31:31] Mia:
Wow. You are right onto it. Aren't you?
[00:31:40] Julia:
So my tip here is never finish a meeting before booking the next meeting. Okay. And I rarely talk in absolutes because this process needs to be humanised. I rarely took an absolutes unless I'm talking about finishing sales conversations, never finish a meeting until you booked the next meeting.
[00:31:47] Mia:
Okay. And what about those, uh, six-figure gurus that tell you that you don't even need a discussion. Discovery call, let alone two or three.
[00:31:56] Julia:
Yeah. Uh, Oh gosh. This is something I can also, you and I could talk about this for many, many hours.
It always comes back to who are you taking your advice from, right? And people buy from people they like, know and trust. I don't know. Your audience is smart. I feel like I would be insulting them by, by laboring the point on that because yeah, it just comes back to who are you getting advice from?
[00:32:16] Mia:
Yeah. Generally, what I say to that question is. That's fine if that works for them and they're happy, that's great. But this is not currently working for you. And so we need to do something differently. Also, let's think about the path to least resistance. Do you want to send 11 billion sales emails and have someone kicking around your funnel for six months? Or do you want to get the job done in two calls? One that was 30 minutes and one that was five.
[00:32:38] Julia:
You know, even in comparison, I recently crossed paths with someone who had done something similar, uh, something that I had done similar professional friend. Okay. And I was like, wow, look at all the success that person is having on this one particular thing. And, you know, we had friends, this person and I, and, uh, I had learned behind the scenes that the reason they were having all this success was they had, uh, for this one [00:33:00] particular product they'd launched. They had a budget of a hundred and it was 127, 000. And I was like, well, that makes sense. Doesn't it actually, I'm not prepared to put 127, 000 into launching a new service line.
So of course that's why they're doing well. Comparison, not helpful. But like lift up the hood people, like make sure you know this, you are comparing apples with apples. And again, you make an excellent, really brilliant point there. Well, you've obviously tried it, you know, you've tried all these things are not working.
So why, why are you talking to me today then? And interestingly, the number one, the one number one rule of negotiating is if someone is talking to you to some degree, they're interested in what you have. Thank you. So the fact that they've turned up. They're interested.
[00:33:43] Mia:
Thank you. I think that's what the listener needed to hear today.
That if you've got them on a discovery call, it means that they want what you've got. So you owe it to them as well as yourself. Yeah. You go through this process. Otherwise, they would never have booked a call.
[00:33:55] Julia:
That's right. That's the number one rule of the negotiation. If someone is talking to you, to some degree, they're interested in what you have.
[00:34:04] Mia:
Amazing. So Julia, I know that there are going to be people who want to work with you because this was amazing and I'm super appreciative for your generosity today. Who exactly do you work with? How can they get in touch?
[00:34:16] Julia:
Yeah. So first of all, uh, I'm going to, again, I'm going to take it and make an answer to a different question.
Who do I want to learn this stuff? Anyone. If you're a human and you run a business. You need to know sales skills. If you're a human and you talk to other humans, you need to know negotiation skills. So I feel like that's covered your audience, right? So everyone needs to learn this stuff. Please connect with me on LinkedIn and, uh, and don't just hit the button or the follow, like say hi and tell me you came to me through Mia.
Um, and then we can talk about Mia. So let's do that. Um, so say hello, tell me where you came to me, uh, on LinkedIn. So hit the button. I'm just Julia Hewitt MBA, I think is my name, but I'm sure me, I'll put that in the show notes. I have a website. My website is a fancy brochure. It's not a conversion tool.
That's part of my strategy. My, my marketing strategy is I point everyone towards LinkedIn. You'll find me there, but essentially, uh, I work with, uh, service based businesses who are not selling widgets and I help them customise, uh, a repeatable sales process. Where they can just be themselves to convert more clients, increase their margins and win more negotiation conversations.
[00:35:19] Mia:
Amazing. I will definitely put the LinkedIn in the show notes. I will also put that podcast episode that I listened to, which was amazing. I listened to it last Saturday. It was so good. So I want people to hear that. And I will also put a link to the book because that is also a great place to start.
[00:35:37] Julia:
Pitch to profit. Yes. From pitch to profit. This is available now, um, online or good booksellers. And this is designed for people who actually want to achieve all those, you know, convening more clients, increasing their margins in a really, really palatable way.
[00:35:53] Mia:
Can I tell you a funny anecdote about your book? So I haven't read it yet.
I just got home from 10 months away and I was on a red eye flying from Darwin to Melbourne and it was like, you know, ridiculous o'clock, like 1230 and I was just killing time in the bookshop and I saw your book, and I just had a full-on little freak-out and people are looking at me. Like I'm a crazy person.
Cause I'm like, that's my friend! This is her book! This is here in Darwin! And everyone's like, cool. All right, cool. It's midnight.
[00:36:28] Julia:
That's so good. Someone did teach me, a fellow author did teach me that whenever you see, uh, your own book or your friend's books. And I did, I think I remember you text me now and I text you back and said, did you multi-face it? Like, did you pull out four copies and put them all over the shelf? So now I purposely go into bookstores, I go to the business section, I find my book, I pull out three copies and I put them like literally in a row. So it's like, Oh wow, this looks, books look interesting. And then I leave. Yeah.
[00:36:58] Mia:
I can't believe you just admitted to that.
[00:37:00] Julia:
Tell the truth, Mia. It's really important. Always. Right? Always.
[00:37:04] Mia:
I love that. Thanks, Mia. I love that chat. Thank you so much, Julia. Thanks, Mia.
[00:37:11] Mia:
Thank you. You listened right up until the end, so why not hit that subscribe button? And keep the good marketing rolling. Podcast reviews are like warm hugs, and they're also the best way to support a small business. You can connect with me, Mia Fileman on Instagram or LinkedIn, and feel free to send me a message.
I'm super friendly.
