[00:00:05] Mia
Are you tired of marketing jargon and empty promises? Me too! I'm Mia Fileman, and this is Got Marketing?, on the show, I deep dive with marketing insiders to unpack successful campaigns. I didn't earn the nickname 'The Campaign Lady' for nothing. Get actionable tips, learn from winning strategies, and avoid falling victim to marketing fads and fakery.
[00:00:30] Mia
Hello friend, and welcome to the Got Marketing? Show. Today we are going to talk to someone who knows how to create tasty social media content and who is a master at brand partnerships.
[00:00:44] Rita Agoulian
80% of your time as a business owner needs to be in sales and marketing. If you are not investing 80% of your time in marketing and sales, then who is? You're only ever going to be stuck in the trenches doing the do.
[00:0:55] Mia
That was Rita Agoulian. She's the founder and director of Lick Your Phone Media, a multi-award winning social media and influencer marketing agency that has partnered with over a hundred clients from local restaurants to global heavyweights like McDonald's, Coca-Cola, Cadbury, Pepsi, and KitKat. So good to have you here with me today, Rita.
[00:01:16] Rita
Thank you so much for having me.
[00:01:19] Mia
It's such a pleasure to talk with you. I love your content. It always captures me in. And that's exactly what we want to do with social media content, right? It's like that capture attention, stop the scroll. So what's your secret?
[00:01:32] Rita
That's such a good question. I genuinely always think about how is the audience or the person on the other side of the phone going to think and feel it is not about what you think of the content. It's about what does the other person, your target audience think and feel when they watch and consume the content.
[00:01:56] Mia
I could not agree more. So let's back it up a little bit and talk about your agency. So Lick Your Phone started as a passion project, highlighting must-try food spots in Sydney. How did that turn into a fully fledged award-winning hospitality marketing agency?
[00:02:14] Rita
Through lots of failures. And an extreme amount of drive. So I am a very passionate person and I genuinely believe I was born to be a successful business-woman. It's in my DNA, and I didn't have it figured out. I did not know what I was going to do. I just knew whatever career I had, I just wanted to be the best at it.
And so going into a business, I didn't first start off by going, yeah, I'm going to create an agency. I thought that I was going to go into it creating a e-commerce business and I completely failed. Not only did I fail, I genuinely hated it. Ecom is not for me. What happened was through the learnings and also a little bit of saying yes to an opportunity, I genuinely fell into a service based business.
[00:03:11] Mia
I can 100% relate to this idea that I was born to be an entrepreneur. I'm Greek background in my sleuthing of your background. I saw that you are Armenian same, same, but different. That iery passion that, you know, we're deeply curious people, people as I can, I can sense it in your content. And so, uh, yes, feel very aligned with that. Okay. Tell me what the e-commerce product was.
[00:03:38] Rita
Okay. So, let me take a step back prior to that. So my role prior to taking that leap of faith was I was in corporate finance, right? And earning six figures, I was very successful in that industry. And then all of a sudden you go, whoa, I'm going to do something I've never done before, but I just had this belief of I'm going to be successful. It doesn't matter. Even though you've never had experience in that industry ever, which is e commerce and also marketing. I just knew that I was really great at, uh, uh, you know, creating content or social media, really great at socials. So the first step is taking that leap of faith and just going, I'm going to go all in.
So the first year was figuring it out. So I actually earned less money than someone would on the doll. So I just really just completely was delusional and just kept at it. To answer your question regarding what I was planning to do in regards to e-commerce, the thought process was I was going to create an aggregated e-commerce website.
So where all the gift boxes can have a home like an Etsy, but for all the gift boxes. So that's a very expensive exercise. I didn't know that that was going to be very costly until I had already quit my job and was planning to do it. And so what I thought was the right thing to do at the time was I'll create my own gift box. I'll make money from that. And then I'll be able to go back to the original plan. So the brand was called Lick Your Box. Which is, you know, in a, well, you know, playing off by Lick Your Phone, Lick Your Box, gift boxes. And honestly, it was a horrible idea. Not just the name was just a bit too much. It was the gift. The food was just what you can get at Coles. And I thought, Oh, it doesn't matter. We'll have, we've got our name. We've got our followers. It was a sh*t product, but I genuinely thought I was going to be successful because we had an audience already. We already had a brand called Lick Your Phone and Lick Your Box is going to picky-back. I was so wrong. It was like a big slap to the face. Like I think I make 10 sales. It was just so embarrassing.
[00:05:50] Mia
And so the value proposition was flawed. Why do you say that e- commerce is just not for you? Was it just from that experience? Or was there something else about the nature of e commerce that you said 'I just don't love that'.
[00:06:01] Rita
I genuinely didn't like anything about the process. I don't want to be working with a physical product. I don't genuinely enjoy it. And the journey, I genuinely did not like it. It's not for me. Let's say the product was great. I still didn't enjoy the process.
[00:06:24] Mia
I'm so, yeah, so happy to hear that because the grass is always greener, right? Like I, sometimes I'm a service person. Based business as well. I fantasise about having a product because then it's like, it's less about me. It's less about me having to show up on the socials and build a personal brand. And all the content has to feature me like here's a product, buy it if you like.
[00:06:45] Rita
I couldn't be further away from having that personally for me, even though service based business... So service based business is based on people and people are one of the hardest things to manage. You'd think that a product is more easier to manage because it's like, Hey, give me 10 units of these or 10, 000 units of these. There's so many other complications that come with that as well. My thing is what brings you joy? So whatever it is, it's what makes my insides happy, whatever it is that we're doing. It has to be, you have to enjoy it because if you love what you're doing, you're never working a day in your life. Otherwise there's no point in doing it. If you don't enjoy it.
[00:07:14] Mia
For sure. So why did you choose hospitality marketing? I know you fell into it, but why have you just sort of. Is, is it that just staying in your lane? You're like, this is my niche. There's enough hospitality businesses in Australia. I don't need to go fishing in other ponds.
[00:07:24] Rita
The more niche you are, the better you build a reputation. And that also then becomes even more detailed in the services. That we also provide. So we are a restaurant social media marketing agency. We don't just do everything in marketing because again, you become wishy washy. So we don't do Google SEO, ads. It's not aligned with what we do. So if we're not going to be the best at it, there's no point of providing that as a service. So the more of a expert you are, honestly, the more you'll kill it.
[00:08:02] Mia
That is such a great lesson that applies to every business, not just hospitality. What else can small businesses outside of the hospitality industry learn from hospitality marketing? What makes it different?
[00:08:11] Rita
Know your playgrounds. would be my first answer. What I mean by a playground, identify what is the industry that you are in and really think about where is my ideal customer hanging out? Which playgrounds? Which platforms on social media? Are they on Instagram? Are they on Facebook? Are they on LinkedIn? Are they on Pinterest? That is the most important part. Would I be talking about restaurants to go out and visit on LinkedIn? No. What we do. Is we talk about things that are relevant topics that are relevant for the playground. So for example, LinkedIn, we would be talking about, okay, these are the awards that we've won, or these are the podcasts that we're currently featured on. So know your playground, the things that will always be important, regardless of the playground is what is engaging. What's going to capture attention. It always is. We'll go back to how does that customer on the other side of the phone going to think and feel by consuming this type of content. And in the first three seconds, you must capture the attention visually. And then your next job is to get them to continue. The job after that is to spark a action. You must spark an emotion that makes a person think and feel something to then get them to take action.
[00:09:27] Mia
Amazing. So helpful. You are known for creating viral social media content. Like a lot of people want to go viral, but you do it consistently with your agency. What are some practical tips that the listener could maybe take away from this conversation?
[00:09:43] Rita
Learn to evolve and also learn to delegate. So, even though I started Lick Your Phone, that doesn't mean that I am the one creating it. I actually cannot take the credit for creating viral content anymore. At all, actually. I have a team for that. And giving them the space to be creative and make the changes. That's really important. I'm still learning that. It's really important. I still get reminded to today. Allow them to excel, evolve, learn, and study. I really love to identify. When I'm looking at a video, I'm subconsciously asking myself, why did this video actually capture my attention? What was it first? Was it the visuals? Am I reading the actual captions? What was in the caption? Are they playing sound? And then I start analysing, okay? Then I continue to go, Okay, well, what was the next video that caught my attention? Okay, was there anything in common?
[00:10:40] Mia
I love that exercise, Rita. Everyone needs to do that. Next time you're scrolling Instagram, rather than just scrolling, stop and make a note about what it was, why did you stop, how long did you watch that video through, and actually try to reverse engineer the strategy. That is genius. Thank you so much.
[00:10:58] Rita
And also it's It's really going, okay, well, from watching that video, can you replicate it? How can you replicate it, but also how can you make it better? So there's many articles that's like, you know, put the trending sound on there, put your captions in there that is not going to be necessary for everybody. And also not everybody has the tools and the resources, all the knowledge to be doing. So that's where the delegation comes in, right? So it's really important. Hey, you like this video, that's cool. You don't need to do everything that everyone says. Do what's right for you and your business. Really important. Do what's right for you and your business. And always go back to, is this going to help the customer on the other side? Is this going to spark an emotion, get them to take action?
[00:11:42] Mia
Yeah, we should talk about briefly, virality, because You know, we said that your videos go viral and it's like, well, what does that matter? I think in the hospitality marketing industry, virality really matters because then it becomes a place that people. Want to go to, it is the hottest spot in town. Would you agree with that?
[00:12:02] Rita
Virality doesn't mean sh*t if you don't have a strategy. And what I mean by this is, so Lick Your Phone is not just our only, um, platform of a following. We also have another page with 1. 2 million followers. So collectively, Lick Your Phone had 1. 7 million followers back in 2018. And even then that doesn't mean anything because if you don't have a strategy and a plan for your business, it doesn't make a difference. So followers back in the day was the thing, now it's like virality. I still have the same thought process about virality doesn't mean sh*t if it's not going to make a difference. What I mean by this is, let's say you are dancing in a video, and that might go viral, but did that do anything for the business? You have to have a backup plan. So it's really important to go. Yes, you might have content that really went viral. However, what's your next post or next thing? Is it a caption that might have a CTA? What is it that's going to actually make a difference to your business? So you actually have to have a healthy amount of mixture of content, not just everything can't go viral. And just because you have someone dancing in a video doesn't mean that it's going to get you more customers. You might have a video that might get a thousand views, but it actually had purpose. It was more resonating with your ideal customer, and it actually got you more business than the one that made you go viral.
[00:13:29] Mia
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I've got a gift, Rita. It's a, it's a really special gift where I can look at a piece of content and say, Wow, that's going to go absolutely nowhere. That leads to nothing. That's just content that is great for clicks and, you know, likes, but it actually does not serve a single marketing objective other than maybe ego.
[00:13:53] Mia
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[00:14:37] Rita
Yes, it's really important to have numerous amount of content pillars. So you need to work on content pillars and have a rhythm that's repeatable. Content pillars are basically storytelling topics or content that people are going to consume, different types of topics that you must repeat in a cycle.
[00:14:54] Mia
Can you give an example of like what some content pillars might be for one of your restaurants or cafes?
[00:15:00] Rita
You have menu, you've got catering, you have takeaway, you have staff, you have customers, you have specials. Multiple different types of storytelling topics. It can't just be food, food, food, food, food. It can't just be viral, viral, viral, viral, viral, viral. Even for Lick Your Phone, we're a restaurant marketing agency, but our social media content is us eating at a restaurant. And then we're like, well, hang on, this is not meaning that we're getting more ideal customers. So we actually had to change our content pillars around. Okay, no, we actually do have to talk about our agency more. So twice a week, we need to make sure that we're actually creating content for our agency that is behind the scenes of how we're actually producing content, potentially for a restaurant, case studies, testimonials, then it's like the fun stuff, which is like, Hey, we went to eat here, or Hey, this is our team. This is the people, a part of Lick Your Phone.
[00:15:52] Mia
Yeah. I think the problem is, is that when you post testimonial, the engagement on those posts is so low. Compared to the fun eating at a restaurant or like you said, dancing video. And so what business owners do is that, well, that content didn't perform very well, so I shouldn't share it. And it's like, well, it didn't perform on the virality metric. But I've done a bottom of funnel post on my Instagram that had five likes, but it also made me 20, 000 dollars.
[00:16:25] Rita
So exactly because the one that's more purposeful. So the agency videos don't get high reach, but they're the most impactful for numbers growing our profits. So actually they are more valuable than us eating at a restaurant.
[00:16:38] Mia
Do you think that it's Social media being an inherently social platform, and I see it as quite a top of funnel playground. Do you still think that it's worthwhile posting? And I think you've already answered this, but I'd love to reiterate this. Do you think it's still worth posting promotional or sales content on social media? Is that the best place for it?
[00:17:02] Rita
You've got to have a healthy mix. Of things such as content pillars, but you also have to choose your playground. So you can talk about more promotional stuff on LinkedIn or is, so ask yourself, is it relevant on this playground? So chop and choose the content that you'd be posting specifically on the channels?
Mia
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay, that's great. So I've got a left field question. There's a lot of agency owners. That listen to Got Marketing?, and I can imagine that it, and this is a common problem that they experience and I experienced.
[00:17:30] Rita
Nothing is a problem. Everything's always a challenge.
[00:17:36] Mia
Okay, great. It's a challenge. Okay, great. I love that reframe Rita. Excellent. So, and I experienced this being an agency owner for seven years. Is that you get brought in to do the marketing for a brand and you are now responsible for all of their sales because apparently marketing equals sales. And however, the product fails to deliver on the expectations that you've built for it. And I can see this happening in the restaurant industry where you [00:18:00] are engaged to create this incredible social media content, but then a customer walks into the restaurant and the food's just not that good. The service is just not that good. You wait too long to get the food and then it's your fault that the business isn't doing well.
[00:18:17] Rita
My question would be, why did you have that client in the first place? So vetting is very important. So we don't take on anyone just because they're a restaurant or a cafe. We genuinely take a look at can we really make a difference to this venue? So do they have a social media presence, you know, uh, for us to potentially do a makeover. But then other things such as Google reviews. What are other people saying about them? What is their website like? Like, do they even have a website? Are they presentable? Would I even want this product myself? Would I even go to this restaurant myself? So, not everybody that wants your business should have your business. Or even be a part of it because usually what I find is the people who are not even delivering the basics of a business, which is good service and that they need the most marketing, but they're going to be the ones that give you the most headache because then of course they're going to blame you because the first thing they should have done is actually made an effort of making their customers happy in the first place. It doesn't matter how much money you're throwing at an agency or ads. If your product is sh*t it's still sh*t like, don't even go near it. Say thank you. But no, thank you. I don't think we're the right fit. Bye bye.
[00:19:29] Mia
I love that. That to me tells me that you're really leading with integrity. Because, you know, small business is tough and it's hard to say no to money. And so the fact that you, one, do that due diligence by probably going and eating at this restaurant, looking at their Google reviews and assessing whether the right fit for you is great. And I would say to people that even if you need the business, like if you're, you're like, well, I'm, I'm just not in a position where I can say no to this client, cause I just need a client. Then like you said, they might just end up being more money than they're worth.
[00:20:05] Rita
Correct. Another thing, let's say that they do have a okay product, even let's say a good product. In the conversations, like a discovery call, your instincts will tell you this client is going to be a red flag. Okay. Trust your gut, trust your instincts. That ain't going to change. So no amount of money is worth stress. No amount of client is worth stress. It's better to let go of the clients that are headaches, than to have that and deal with stress, uh, you, all you're going to do is say no to make room for better ones.
[00:20:39] Mia
Love that. And I couldn't agree more. Like we are living in a cortisol epidemic where we're just walking around with ridiculously elevated levels of cortisol and we think that it's okay. And then that's the new normal.
[00:20:50] Rita
No. No, but I didn't know this until I actually made the mistakes to go, okay, I cannot do this. So just please save yourself the heartbreak and the headache.
[00:21:03] Mia
Totally. A key marketing strategy of yours is brand partnerships. How can small businesses leverage partnerships to drive their business growth?
[00:21:11] Rita
Find out, first and foremost, what's your goal. What's the goal? There's no point of going into a brand partnership if you don't have a goal that's going to be aligned and if your audiences have the same sort of interests. Exhibit A. We want to grow our agency. We need to target restaurant owners. How do we do that? Okay. Where are restaurant owners hanging out? I actually went on social media and started to look at restaurant owners. Who are they following? And then I saw a pattern. I saw that they are following Timeout. I was like, if I'm also seen on timeout, when I say, I am then going to be in front of more restaurant owners. I didn't just only reach out to timeout. I did reach out a few others. Timeout was the one that was most aligned and also the most cost-effective. It just felt right. But then it's like, okay, we'll work out a campaign. So we created testimonials, fun testimonials, where restaurant owners, reputable restaurant owners were talking about how good it is working with us.
They recommend hiring us. And this is Timeout doing not just an organic post, but ads, then targeting restaurant owners. So that was a paid partnership and it worked phenomenally. We've done it with another media company, didn't work as well. And that's okay. You learn, even though that they're both media publications, one just simply had a more engaged audience than the other. The difference was as well, what we learned in the key findings was we didn't run ads In the other one. So therefore, we know that as we're working in this campaign, continue with that target. So then we're doing our calls and also we are able to track our landing pages. We're seeing where people are coming from. It tells us not assuming it tells us yet this person came from the Timeout campaign and you're able to track your ROI. So that's a brand partnership. Whatever you're doing, understand does the customer advertise, are they hanging out? They're going to be mutually beneficial. And then also make sure that you're tracking your campaigns. Okay. You have to make sure you're tracking, then how else are you going to know that it's working?
[00:23:16] Mia
If we didn't measure it, we didn't happen.
[00:23:20] Rita
The second part is, okay, so let's say it's a more of a brand awareness activation. Again, the goal is to get awareness, be seen, be heard, potentially reach more restaurant owners or hospitality owners. So, we partnered with a restaurant owner and created a custom menu. So a Lick Your Phone special, and it created awareness virality. Because other restaurant owners saw this campaign. They're like, Oh, I like what they did. And then when they go to our socials, there's our website, then that we've got our content pillars. So, it was more of an organic approach versus targeted. So different ways of doing it, one more effective than the other. But if I was going to put in a nutshell, you have to ask yourself, is this. Partner going to bring value and is our audiences alike.
[00:24:00] Mia
Always. 100%. When small businesses are looking for partners, what else do they need to keep in mind for the best ROI? Where should they even start to look for them?
Rita
You can partner with a brand. You can partner with influencers. You can partner with your next-door neighbor. As long as they're going to bring value. So you have to ask yourself questions. Okay. Again, what's the goal. Second part is what's the objective. Then you map it out. What's the offer. Then you start reaching out and, how are you going to track this. There's no point of reaching out to people if you still don't know your objective.
[00:24:29] Mia
Yeah, exactly. So true. What are some of the unique challenges that you find with hospitality marketing that are different to other industries? Like, you know, going back to this idea that the grass isn't always greener and that, you know, you think it's going to be so hands-off to run a product based business, but then you're like, Okay. Hang on, logistics, warehouses, having to spend 50, 000 to order products before I've even sold it. Actually, once I get into it, it's a nightmare. What are some of the interesting or unique challenges with hospitality marketing that people might not be aware of?
[00:25:03] Rita
Well, before you even get started, you've got to fit out the shop. This is a new business. You've got to spend money on branding. You've got to spend money on architecture. So. This can also potentially apply for minimum viable product. You know, can you potentially buy a restaurant versus having to build it from scratch? So think about it, lick your phone. I had to build it from scratch. Could it have been easier if I bought a business potentially? Yeah. Cause they were already at the brand and the staff and all of that jazz. So this applies to service based and e commerce. Right? The advice would be have whatever tools and AI and systems and process in place to make sure that you're organised. That's probably one of the most important things that I've learned is you need to have a system process in place to also run a business. You must be organised. This is not just hospitality. This is across every industry. You must be organized and use the power of automations to save yourself time.
[00:25:37] Mia
I can imagine a lot of hospitality businesses are getting a lot of this wrong. Not enough systems. Yeah.
[00:25:52] Rita
And not learning to delegate. So I find business owners, they're like, Oh, I'm going to do the socials. And then I'm going to do the accounts. And then I'm going to do the HR. Why, why would you wear all those hats? One of the first things that I ever did in my business was even when I had my first client, I delegated it to another social media manager. I didn't manage it. I delegated it. There was no way in hell I'm going to manage socials. So I contracted that out. Delegate from day dot.
[00:26:19] Mia
I love that. That is such a great advice because so many people will be listening to this going, I can't afford it. Uh, I've just got to hit this revenue goal before I can afford to hire my first person or even a contractor. But what you're saying is that you end up getting stuck in the weeds of your business. And then if you were doing all the social media management for that first client, how are you going to go and get the other three clients that you need to start building an agency?
[00:26:42] Rita
Correct. 80% of your time as a business owner needs to be in sales and marketing. If you are not investing 80% of your time in marketing and sales, And who is, you're only ever going to be stuck in the trenches doing it.
[00:26:54] Mia
I didn't even need to say it. You said it for me. Thank you. That was amazing. Why 80%? Why that high? What if someone is like, I started a restaurant because I love serving food and people and talking to people. Why am I now doing 80 percent of my time is in marketing and sales?
[00:27:14] Rita
Uh, well, don't you want to grow your business? Don't you want to have more clients that you want to service too? Like, don't you want more bums on seats? Don't you want more orders? Do you just want one customer or a hundred? To get to a hundred you need... the best analogy that I have is think of it. Think of this. There's a car needs fuel, right? Well, not a Tesla needs battery, but let's go with the fuel option for a sec. You need to put fuel in the car to get you from destination A to destination B. Otherwise, if you don't put fuel in the car, it just stays in neutral. That's it. Doesn't go anywhere. Same with a Tesla. If you don't charge the batteries,that thing ain't working. So 80% of your time needs to be charging the batteries, putting the fuel in the business so that it fuels growth. So it gets you from A to B. Otherwise, you're staying in neutral. Or, it's not even going to turn on normally.
[00:28:04] Mia
Yeah, I love that analogy. And I think it's so important because there'll be people here listening that will say, if I have a great product, I have delicious food, I have nice stuff, I've built it, and they will come.
[00:28:17] Rita
No. How are they going to know about you? How are they going to know about you if they don't see you? Do you know how many, do you know how much competition there is out there? Not just hospitality. Do you know how many businesses are popping up left, right, and center and how much content there is out there? How are they going to think about you if they don't know about you?
[00:28:37] Mia
But even they forget about you. There are so many places that I. I'm like, Oh, I totally forgot about that place that does these really amazing Vietnamese rice paper rolls, because I haven't, they have not popped into the millions of communications that I receive. And if it wasn't for literally driving past, I would have completely forgotten that they existed, even though I've been there before. And I liked it.
[00:29:01] Rita
Really important for a service-based business, right? So there's a customer cycle. It could be three days, three weeks, or three months for them to even come to visit you. And that's why maybe not just seeing you once they would have to see you potentially maybe three times, four times. So it's really important to consistently be seen, be heard, be everywhere.
[00:29:19] Mia
Amazing. That is an absolutely perfect place to end on. It has been such a pleasure to talk with you. I love your passion. I meet with business owners. All day, every day, and sometimes I'm left scratching my head going, I just don't even feel like you like running a small business. I don't hear it in your voice, but I absolutely hear it in yours. I think you're amazing. What you've done is really inspirational in terms of building an agency for grant from the ground up anything that you would like to leave us on today.
[00:29:48] Rita
My dad, my dad popped into my mind and he's like, Bobby, never give up. I say this to myself, and I hope you can say this to yourself. I refuse to believe I would fail. Therefore I did it. So just keep going, babes.
[00:30:07] Mia
I love it. Thank you so much, Rita. It was an absolute pleasure chatting with you.
[00:30:15] Mia
You listened right up until the end. So why not hit that subscribe button and keep the good marketing rolling? Podcast reviews are like warm hugs, and they're also the best way to support a small business. You can connect with me, Mia Fileman on Instagram or LinkedIn, and feel free to send me a message. I'm super friendly.
