Mia Fileman 0:05
Are you tired of marketing jargon and empty promises? Me too. I'm Mia Fileman, and this is Got Marketing?, on the show I deep dive with marketing insiders to unpack successful campaigns. I didn't earn the nickname 'The Campaign Lady' for nothing, get actionable tips, learn from winning strategies and avoid falling victim to marketing fads and fakery.
Mia Fileman 0:30
Hello Friend, welcome to the Got Marketing? podcast. About seven months ago, I launched my marketing membership, and so now I am absolutely obsessed with regards to how we build communities because that's now what we offer. So on today's show, I really want to explore this topic about how we genuinely build communities.
Tori Kopke 0:58
Community is one of those things that can just get forgotten about. We're so focused on what the copy looks like. How am I presenting? If we can actually just get those people around us advocating for our brand, there's going to be so much more potency to our messaging, to how we're showing up online. Really takes a brand the next level the community can really amplify it.
Mia Fileman 1:17
That was Tori kopke. She helps rural and regional women grow their businesses and still have time for life. She is a wife, mother, business coach and strategist, living and working on the family farm in the wheat belt of WA Welcome to the show, Tori.
Tori Kopke 1:34
Hello. Thank you so much for having me.
Mia Fileman 1:37
It is such a pleasure to meet you. I have followed your work for probably the last nine months. And am a huge fan girl.
Tori Kopke 1:45
I mean, I've been a fan too. And then seeing you, like travel, obviously, I'm I have a bit of an accent, so seeing your travels and going through my homeland, it was just, yeah, I kind of felt like I know you.
Mia Fileman 1:56
We loved Texas and we loved Texans. It is like, the spiritual, like, equivalent of Australians. Like, if, if you had to pick a spot and be like, who is the most like, Australians? It's Texans.
Tori Kopke 2:09
Oh, without a doubt. So we got married in Texas, and had about 50 Australians come over, and they, a lot of them were very well traveled, but had never been to Texas, and they're like, oh my gosh, it's, it's like us with different accents. And it was great. It was a wonderful time.
Mia Fileman 2:22
Yeah, we loved it. We went to Austin and we went to Houston, and it's definitely like we want to spend a lot more time there.
Tori Kopke 2:29
Yeah, I am. I do miss it, but Australia is home now.
Mia Fileman 2:32
So why have you chosen to focus on rural and regional businesswomen in your work?
Tori Kopke 2:38
It is a journey. But essentially, when I was working in corporate I started out in oil and gas, as like every Texan does. Then I started working in oil and gas internationally, and that brought me to Texas, or from Texas to Australia. So I was working for a Texan-based oil and gas company, and that was fabulous and fantastic. I met my husband, and I was like, Oh, well, I'm moving to the country. And so I went from, you know, boardrooms with Chevron to paddocks with my husband, and out here I did take on a job as the GM of a machinery manufacturer, and that was very cool. But what I kept finding was, okay, you know, I need to outsource my marketing, or we need to bring in a specialist for this. And so in that kind of general manager role, you know, you are delegating, you're dealing with agencies, you're bringing in team members, and every time I brought someone in, they just didn't get it, like, I'd bring in a videographer from the city, and it was basically like, Okay, we have a four-week window to shoot because this is harvest, and they just didn't get the timelines. And it was constant for years. And so then I was like, Okay, well, this is it. This is it. I'm just gonna go serve rural and regional businesses because no one else is doing it. So that was back in 2016. I took off the corporate hat. I went all in on myself, started my own marketing agency. And I was like, This is it. And then, of course, that kind of general manager, I want to have a holistic approach to everything. Can't start creeping in. And I was like, Okay, maybe just running marketing isn't what I want to do. And I really wanted to look at the holistic business. And so that's when I really started shifting into coaching and strategy. And amongst it all, I just kept, kept kept feeling like rural and regional women were getting forgotten about and left behind. Because even in the country, you know, we don't have storefronts, we're so forgotten about. You know, I'm, I'm here at my house with, yes, I have an office. It's fantastic. I'm 25k is from town in town, there's not like, there's a pop up workspace. There's not, like, there's no reason for me to have an office there. My clients aren't there, like we're just so forgotten about. And so it made me feel extremely isolated. And then I just kind of think, kept thinking there's got to be more women like me. And that's when I really started pursuing this idea of building a community around rural and regional women.
Mia Fileman 4:59
Yeah, I think it is sorely needed. I live in Darwin, and people just don't get it. I mean, yes, you can fly from Darwin to other cities, but a lot of people don't realise that it's a five-and-a-half-hour flight, and all the flights leave at midnight. So I feel so isolated up there, like it's so much easier and cheaper for me to go to Bali for the weekend, which I know tough life. But if you want to meet with people in person, attend all these cool events that people are going to South by Southwest, or any of these get-togethers, you know, that's $2,000 and a whole day of travel for me. So I think, I think what you're doing is so worthy.
Tori Kopke 5:38
Oh, absolutely like for me to so right now, we're heading into harvest. So we've got, you know, two staff members. I've got two kids, husband, father-in-law rocks up occasionally. So for me to leave, I have to make sure that this whole team of people is fed, that someone's organised to, you know, watch my kids get my kids off the bus, like there's just like this whole logistical nightmare that has to happen before I can even consider the cost of going to an event or attending something in person, and it's just such an additional mental load. And we went to Darwin, like two weeks ago for school holidays. Love Darwin, but again, so isolated, just so far removed from this idea of, you know, I'll just pop down to the co working space, or, Oh, I'll bump into someone at the coffee shop for a little catch-up. Like it's so far removed from my reality. And I love that that exists for other people, but it's just not my reality at all.
Mia Fileman 6:35
Yeah. So you mentioned a few of the issues facing regional and rural businesswomen, but what are some of the others that impact their ability to run successful, profitable businesses?
Tori Kopke 6:46
I think there's a lot of things that do impact in a very negative way. One of them is reliability of power. I lost power Tuesday on the death knock of a coaching call, and I was like, well, that's it. I'll see her next week. It's just sometimes we literally don't have power for days for absolutely no reason. And so that is just, like, a such a huge issue, I mean, and again, it's a logistical issue. There's also the idea of support. You know, we get a lot of, I don't want to say city slickers, but we have a lot of people from the city come out and provide advice or support, and they just don't get it. And that, to me, breaks my heart that our regional organisations, non-profits are investing into city people to come out to the country to tell us how to run our businesses. So I'm just like, that is such a disconnect to me. And so this disconnect between the reality and what people think we need. So that's a huge challenge. It is my mission to bridge that gap. It is my absolute mission to bridge that gap. I think again, I touched on it. The logistics of running a business in a country are just they're just challenging. And then that isolation is an added layer. You know, I can easily go days without leaving the farm and not see people, except for on Zoom or on a on a podcast call like this. You know, it's very realistic. And if I wasn't in a position where having that kind of front facing client work, I could very easily just be sitting in like a wallow of isolation for days and days, and that, I think is really challenging, because you don't have anyone to bounce ideas off of. You know, you're not talking to someone that really gets it. And I think that that can be really detrimental to success.
Mia Fileman 8:35
Yeah, it just it sounds like absolutely everything is harder, like even the smallest things that we take for granted. Like, I just need to pop down to a chemist 25 kilometres away, and they might not even have what you need in stock, and then they have to order it in, so then you go back three days later. Like, everything becomes more challenging. Women already have to wear so many different hats, but to be a farmer or a farmer's wife means that the farm always comes first. So it doesn't matter what you've got going on in your business, if there's a crisis on the farm, then tools down like business-wise.
Mia Fileman 9:09
Absolutely.
Tori Kopke 9:09
Absolutely. So yesterday, I had a beautiful day planned. I was gonna be in the garden, and then my husband rocked up, and he said, I need a part. It's two hours away, so the toddler and I are in the car we're driving. So that was four and a half hours of my day. I made it back just in time for the bus pickup. And that's the reality of, you know, living in the country and doing what we have to do.
Mia Fileman 9:29
Oh, Tori, that sounds Oh. Perspective is a beautiful thing. I appreciate you sharing that because, you know, sometimes we can wallow in our own pain and we forget that there are always people who have it harder than what we do.
Tori Kopke 9:44
Absolutely, and I do have to say that there is such a positive side to living rurally and regionally, like I absolutely love, that my boys can just run free and wild and have all the space in the world. And you know, we can see Dad pretty much at any time, whether we go out to the paddock or he's at the workshop, so that, I think accessibility of having everyone together as a family is fantastic. And then I just love the, I love being in the country. So there's definitely the positives, but challenges are there as well.
Mia Fileman 10:17
I love that glass-half-full approach. That's the only attitude that's going to work, right?
Tori Kopke 10:19
Yeah, definitely.
Mia Fileman 10:21
So why is community so crucial to brand growth, especially in regional areas or for small businesses?
Tori Kopke 10:31
Yeah, look, I think that community is one of those things that can just get forgotten about. Like, you know, we're so focused on what's the collateral look like, what's the copy look like? What's the video look like? How am I presenting? What's the messaging? Where, if we can actually just get those people around us, supporting our brand and advocating for our brand, there's going to be so much more potency to everything, more potency to our messaging, to how we're showing up online. And it just really takes, I think, a brand the next level. Because, yes, a founder can humanise a brand, but a community can really amplify it. And I think that the power of community is just invaluable, really, when it comes to any small business. And so building a community around yourself, it can feel so daunting and so intimidating, but really, I think it's just finding those people that really connect with you, and that's done in a lot of different ways, you know, through really solid messaging for having a really clear purpose, inviting people into your community, recognising that you're not operating in a silo, that independence is not the answer, that bringing people around you is the answer. So, I think if we can be really solid in our message, but then allow our community to stand by us and amplify our message, there's just no greater strength for a brand.
Mia Fileman 11:49
Yeah, I really resonate with that, and I really subscribe to Kevin Kelly's really simple idea of 1000 True Fans that that this is what you need to run a really successful and profitable business. It's not 100,000 Instagram followers or 20,000 people on your email list. It is 1000 people we can count to 1000 that will advocate for you. They might never even buy from you, but they might be your biggest referrers. Like I have people in my community like that that have full-time jobs and that don't want to join my marketing membership, but have sent me 10 people like that's crazy. So I really think that you're right. We overlook how important it is to build a community around our brands of like-minded people who share similar values, who have a shared purpose that help us with the heavy lifting that is marketing a small business, right? Why should you be the only person that is promoting your brand when you can rally these advocates and evangelists?
Tori Kopke 12:53
Absolutely, I think that so many people forget that other people are your strongest supporters because word-of-mouth marketing is the oldest form of marketing, and so if we can just capitalise on that, and I still think it's probably one of the most powerful forms of marketing because having someone as a testament to your brand like that's that's amazing. And so if we can really utilise word of mouth marketing and consider it as part of our brand strategy, I think that we will grow exponentially with that.
Mia Fileman 13:23
Me too, definitely. What are some examples of brands that you think have done really well building a sense of community?
Tori Kopke 13:32
So one of my favourites, and it is regional, but I think that it is definitely relevant. We see it a lot, kind of in the rural and the regional space. A really fantastic example of a strong community base is is Motherland. So I'm not sure if you've heard of Motherland. Stephanie, she is the founder of Motherland. Started with a podcast. It's turned into Motherland Village Facebook group. There are so many layers to it, and it's essentially rural and regional women that are all in very similar situations, sharing their stories and coming together to support one another. And it's a fantastic brand, and it is rural and regional, and so I'm a huge advocate for it.
Mia Fileman 14:18
Great example. I have a couple to I think One Roof. Are you familiar with One Roof? Yeah. So Cherie Rubinstein has started an Entrepreneurship Network community for women who run businesses. It has been amazing. I've been a member for three years. I've met so many of my closest friends through One Roof. I think what makes One Roof not I think I know what makes One Roof so successful is that shared values. There's a lot of different ways to do business, and there's some shady ways to do business. One Roof attracts women Who all want to create brands that matter. You know that it's it's meaningful. They're not just out there to make money, they're there to make money to fuel a greater purpose or to create impact. And so it really attracts those like-minded people, so generous, so kind. I've never had a single problem with anyone in One Roof. So, I think they're a great example. Mecca, chit-chat is such an interesting case study. So Mecca, the beauty retailer, has a Facebook group with 228,000 members, who all flock to this community to review products share different ways of using a product, mostly to just talk about, like, what products are going to be best for their their you know, they'll say, Oh, I've got I'm looking for an eye cream recommendation. My 40 year old eyes are getting deeper by the day. What would you recommend? And then the community comes out and, you know, support, like makes all the suggestions. What's so interesting about mecha chit chat is that they then Mecca, the brand rallies those troops to create user-generated content and basically do the marketing heavy lifting for them. And they can see products to the community first, to get their feedback before they put them into their 200 stores, or however, then there are around the country. So it's it's really a mutually beneficial arrangement to create this space for their Die Hard Necker fans, but the brand is also benefiting as well.
Tori Kopke 16:41
I love that you mentioned Mecca, because there are other and I guess this kind of transcends just community, but also crosses a bit over into the influencer space, because I think influencers do an incredible job of building community. And in essence, when you work with an influencer, you get their whole community following with it. And so I think, you know, makeup brands looking across at influencers is is just a no brainer, in my opinion, because they come with that built-in community. And, you know, we have rural and regional influencers as well. They don't have millions of followers, but they might have, you know, 10s, 20s, 1000s of followers. So I think that that is a really a fantastic example of of accessing built-in communities.
Mia Fileman 17:27
Definitely. Oh, another one just came to mind. It's Mamma Mia Out Loud. And this is such an interesting strategy for anyone that has a podcast, but basically, it's a closed Facebook group for their podcast listeners, and they're very opinionated. Like, we don't like the host, or we don't like that guest, or did anyone feel that Mia Friedman, you know, is one of the hosts of Mama Mia out the podcast. And they're just like, did anyone feel that Mia was being mean to the guests this week. It's like, so opinionated. But what's really fascinating about this is that the insights and the feedback in this group drive the discussions, the guest selection, and basically the entire strategy for this podcast. It's like having a focus group on tap. And I think that there's so much value in that, like, if you're getting that kind of direct access to your consumer's brains, like, that's just marketing gold.
Tori Kopke 18:27
Totally.
Mia Fileman 18:29
Marketing is a team sport. Join Marketing Circle and set sail with us. As a member, you get access to all our programs, including the beloved Campaign Classroom, our proprietary Campaign Builder and one on one, walking meetings with me, plus you'll be part of a tight-knit community of savvy entrepreneurs and marketers wearing all the hats just like you. Designed for those who want to build standout brands. Our strategic and creative marketing membership is your ticket to future-proofing your business. No fluff, no false promises, just real, actionable strategies that work apply to join Marketing Circle today, and let's navigate those marketing stormy seas together.
Mia Fileman 19:12
How have you gone about fostering a sense of community amongst your customers and your ideal customers?
Tori Kopke 19:21
Yeah, yeah. Look, I think that there's something that's really key, and that is accessibility. Like, I never want to be seen or perceived as inaccessible. I want to be very much like, I'm with you guys. I'm in the trenches. I'm doing it too. And so I think that there can be, especially in kind of coaching, the coaching industry, a lot of like wealth signalling and a lot of really negative, superior attitude, and that is just something that I'm never going to do, like I am literally in the trenches with you guys. Not every day is pretty, not every day is perfect, and so I think sewing that thread of authenticity just throughout everything that I do in my messaging is is really key, and it helps me maintain that approachability and that authenticity, so that people do feel like I'm accessible. And so I think that that's really important. When you are building a community, if you want a community around you, it can't be kind of you're at the top dictating down. You've got to be in the trenches with them. And that's that's what builds a community, is when people feel that kind of shared connection with you, common values. They can see parts of them in you, and you've got to show up authentically for that to happen.
Mia Fileman 20:35
And I definitely get that sense from you. I mean, your Facebook group, and I'm just like, 'Oh, she's just one of the girls', I deeply resonate with that. So I'm a talker. Love talking, and I'm also used to being the advisor. You know that it's, it's, I'm the marketing strategist, but in my community Marketing Circle, we have specialists in particular areas, so like a creative director, a videographer, Meta ad specialist, and one of the things that I've been working on myself is like, shut the fuck up, Mia, and let the specialist take this. And so now I feel like my job is not so much to coach and give the advice, but it's to highlight and recognise the expert and throw to them and be like, 'You know what? I'm going to throw this to Renee, like she's a creative director. She's the best person to answer this.' So I feel that it's about holding space and matchmaking, I guess, the members, so that each of them feel seen and recognised, and that I'm just there to make these connections between them, rather than always be the person giving the advice.
Tori Kopke 21:44
Absolutely. So I've been in group coaching programs before where it's very much that kind of hierarchy of the coaches, the leader and going to dish out all the advice, whereas I much prefer a round table sort of approach. I'm just there to facilitate. If there's an accounting question, we have an accountant in the room, let's let her answer like, I'll give you kind of my experience, but I'm not going to be able to give you any sort of strategic advice because I'm not an accountant, and so I think that that's one of the biggest strengths of my group, is we are bringing across women from across a huge range of industries. But again, it's not about me having all the answers. It's about bringing all the people with all the answers into the same room and allowing you to access such an incredible wealth of knowledge in one place.
Mia Fileman 22:36
Yeah, 100% hear you on that. Also, what is your view on like, bigger versus smaller. Because I feel like a lot of the groups that I see the communities, they tend to lose that sense of community when they scale, scale, scale. I saw this with Business Chicks, like, it was awesome to begin with, and then they just got too big, and then it there was kind of like, what is this? Who is it? For? It had lost its purpose. And so for me, I'm all about grow to what's manageable, stay there for a minute, and then grow to the next step, and then grow to the next step in real increments, like, you know the what's the saying? Slow and steady wins the race.
Tori Kopke 23:21
Yeah, absolutely. I never want my clients to feel like they don't have space. I want there to always be space for them to ask a question, to raise a hand, to not feel like a number in a room. And so my Mastermind is a little over two and a half years old. I still have original members in it like it's just, it's a and it is my biggest honour that I'm able to bring these women together from across the country. And I would never want one of them to feel like I'm not seen, I'm not heard, my business doesn't have a place in in this space, and so I have very unintentionally grown my Mastermind the way I have. It's not for everyone. Not everyone can join it. Which which is, you know, maybe some, some founders would say that's not the best course of action for growth. But for me, it's keeping that authenticity. It's keeping everyone rural. It's keeping everyone regional. It's keeping us all connected in that common thread that really unites us as a community. And so for me, it's very important that everyone has space to be seen and heard. And so yes, volume is not what I'm chasing in my community, obviously, I have a larger Facebook group, and I don't get to know every face, but if you're working with me, it's going to be very much like, I'm so nosy I want to know everything about your business and what's happening.
Mia Fileman 24:44
Yeah, I would be mortified if there was a customer and I didn't know their business, like, quite intimately, and I wasn't following them on social media and commenting on their posts like, I think it is so shameful that you've got paying customers, and you are never, ever DMing them commenting on their content, but you're expecting that they're going to support you and promote you and do all of it. Oh, guess what? I'm opening my doors again, so I would love your support. And it's like you haven't responded to us. You haven't ever commented on my Instagram, but I'm paying you. It's, I think it's very, very shameful.
Tori Kopke 25:25
And I think that it's been normalised, and it shouldn't be like paying customers deserve more than the leads you're chasing down, 200 times, a million times more they've put their trust in you, and so they deserve that space. And so yes, I'm never going to be chasing volume. It's always to me if I can't know intimately someone's business, that means I've got a problem in my back end with my systems. There's something else I need to fix that I can have more time with my customers.
Mia Fileman 25:58
Yeah, I'm exactly the same. So does that is that mean an application process to join your Mastermind? How does that work? I do phone calls still. I'm keeping it old school, like I want to have a chat, I want to jump on the phone. I want to get to know you. I want to know your kids names. I want to know where you live. I want to know all the things. So, yeah, I still do phone calls. I did an application process, probably, I tried it about 18 months ago, and it just didn't feel like me like pressing approve on an application. I was just like, This is not how Iwant to do business. So yeah, I still am doing discovery calls. I probably added in a few more qualifiers, like before we get on the call,but yeah, just jump on the phone, have a chat, and then if I'm not the right fit, I do love referring them on to my broader community, and I feel like I can't necessarily do that with an application.
Mia Fileman 26:50
Yeah, that's a really good point. Oh, I love that. That's so good. Okay, let's talk about permagrids, because this is how we first kind of started DMing back and forth for a while. You were trialling a permagrid so that you could report back to your community about the pros and the cons. Your permagrid was stunning. Like, so, so, so, so, so nice. So talk me through all the things.
Tori Kopke 27:18
Okay, so I heard about the concept, and I was like, yes, absolutely, this is fantastic for my people, but I also love the concept and want to try it. The reason I loved the idea of this kind of static 15 grid was so many of my customers are not innately content creators. They are, you know, doing, wearing a million hats, doing a million things and struggling to show up in any capacity on any social media at all. And so I was kind of like, this could be a great solution for some of those businesses, but I'm not going to recommend go do this thing that I have this idea about unless I do it myself. And so I spent a weekend on Canva and put together my permanent grid, and then, I think, went viral within like 24 hours of posting it, it got pretty hectic for a while there. One of my biggest lessons learned is going viral is absolutely crap for everything. Crap for engagement, for for your community. You attract the wrong type of people. You attract people who like to rip off your content. Yeah, learned a lot about going viral, so that was a great lesson to learn. But from that, I had my permanent grid up for, I guess, six or seven months, and it worked really well for top of funnel stuff, so people would land on my grid and pretty much convert into a follower instantly. If they chose to interact, I was able to move them quite quickly to my email list from that like landing on the site, on the on the Insta site, and then moving to my email list quite quickly that way. But after about six months, I believe that if something's starting to feel like it's a constraint in your business. You're allowed to make a shift and make a change. When you've gone viral for a concept, it's a little bit more of a resistance you make a shift. But I just started thinking about it, and I love marketing. I have a lot to say. I have a million things more to say than 90% of my customers, and I can't say them all in a reel. And reels are so like, flash, bang, you know, they're there, one second gone the next. And I just needed to go deeper. And so I really felt like I was missing that middle-of-funnel content that I really love making, and that educational stuff. And so I just decided, okay, there goes my permanent grid, and I made the shift. But I will say that it is a great move for some people, and I think there's concepts from it we can absolutely take on board.
Mia Fileman 29:53
Yeah, we've been having a lot of discussions about it in Marketing Circle. I feel like it's really relevant for people who are transitioning out of Instagram, that they've decided that they want to move more to Tiktok, or they want to go all in with LinkedIn, but they already had a bit of a following on Instagram, or they just want a presence there, and so that they've got the nine grid or the 15 grid sitting there in case people do land on their Instagram that there is, I guess, a virtual storefront there. I also think it's, yeah, great for people who love making reels and nothing else, because you can create the reels, you just don't post them to your grid, but they go to your reels feed. And so you're still creating content, but you've got this beautiful funnel approach to Instagram, but for you and I, who love marketing and have an opinion about everything, then, yeah, I don't think it's the best solution, but definitely worth trialling.
Tori Kopke 30:56
Oh, absolutely worth trialling. I think if you if it's your secondary platform, and you just cannot be bothered 100% like it makes so much sense to move. I have, I have clients that, you know, word of mouth is their primary funnel, and so they just word of mouth brings them all of their clients. They, you know, from that, have their email list, they have other strategies in the background, and they feel like they need that presence. And so they have the permanent grid, and it works fabulously for them. I have other clients that you know. They have just their set suite of offers. It's pretty black and white. If you land, you're actually probably going to buy straight away, like there's actually almost no funnel. So a permanent grid works so well for them. But yeah, if you have lots of things to say, and if you really love kind of educational content and more complex content, then I just don't think that it's it's a forever thing. It was really great to have a break for six months, but now that I'm back to creating content, I'm really enjoying it.
Mia Fileman 31:54
Yeah, and there's like other ways to use it. So I've just moved to a three grids so you can pin up to three posts at the top of your Instagram. So I've done that with a start here, and then how we can work together, and then, tired of marketing BS, and so that's bit the third one speaks more to my approach, or my philosophy. Is a million marketers, so why choose me? So you could do that and then just post your normal content, but have that because I think we kind of stepped over this. But the reason for a perma grid is that people are struggling to understand instantly what it is that you do. So they have to scroll back through all your content to try to piece together exactly what it is that you sell what you offer, who you do it for. And so just with the nature of Instagram, we've actually gotten in our own way and blocked our own customers from converting. And so the perma grid is really good, because you can have that kind of static. This is what I do. This is who I do it for, and this is why you should choose me. Bang, bang, bang. In order to really get to an easy yes or an easy no, straight away,
Tori Kopke 33:06
Absolutely, I've encouraged a majority of my customers to move to at least that kind of three grid brick banner at the top. And the difference between that and the rest of your feed is it looks intentional and its interconnected. And so it's kind of a stop-the-scroll situation, where you do go intentionally investigate those posts.
Mia Fileman 33:26
Exactly. And then another thing that I would recommend people to do is do a grid for your campaigns. So I'm the Campaign Lady. So if you're going to launch something or run a promotion that could be your Black Friday. It could be online course, it could be just a new, new service offering. Then do a 9,6,3, whatever you want to do for your campaign. Someone that does this really, really well is the Social Team. They're in the US. It's Manu, and she's from Atlanta. Your Social Team, I think it's, it's called, and the way she runs her campaigns, she's a socialmedia marketer is, yeah, she has permanent grids for her campaigns, and they're all interconnected, which is, like, the whole point of a campaign is a connected series of actions leading to the desired outcome.
Tori Kopke 34:19
I love that, because I think if you are running a campaign like not everything's going to be conveyed in one post, but the nature of a perma grid is you're going to see, oh, there might be something more off to the right that I'm missing, and then you intentionally go to the profile and explore it further. So I think that that's a fantastic use and application of the perma grid.
Mia Fileman 34:40
Yeah. Do you have any other further tips about people thinking about incorporating community management or community building into their businesses that you're happy to share?
Tori Kopke 34:51
Absolutely so I think if you are, have been in business a while, and you're kind of like, I'm ticking the boxes, what's next? I think you need to go back and think, okay, how am I inviting people into my community, and how am I building it more, whether that be, you know, and community can look like so many different things. It can look like a Facebook group, it can look like pop-up coffee catch-ups. It can look like little networking events in person. It can look like stuff online. It can look like even the community chat on in our DMS. I can't remember what that's called, but where you have broadcast broadcasting, broadcast channel, it can look like that. It can look like so many different things. And so I think if you are asking yourself, like, what's next for my business, how do I take things to the next level? Look at your community like, what can you do to serve them more, get your message out to them more, but also just rally them. And I think that doing it in a way that feels really good for you. You know, not everyone is going to want to facilitate a Facebook group with 1000s of people, but it can. It can be simple, it can be complex, but I think doing it in a way that really serves you and serves your community is really key. And I think once you start tapping into your community and unlocking it and rallying them, you're going to find new levels of growth within that.
Mia Fileman 36:13
Yeah, that's definitely been my experience as well, and I loved what you said about it not being hierarchical. There is no cult leader, and then the minions that follow them. It is literally about people coming together around a shared purpose or shared value. That is the key to that, because after a while, they just get so tired of just one person at the top getting all the glory, and then the rest of us like serving them.
Tori Kopke 36:42
absolutely and the one person in the top, they do not have all the answers, and so I just think it's very much a narcissist move if you think you have all the answers, whereas I know that a collective community is going to be so much stronger than my answers alone. Like, yes, I have tons of experience to pull from, but I don't have the collective experience of 20 business owners.
Mia Fileman 37:04
Correct. Exactly. So with your open Facebook group that's open to everyone, that's not just for your customers, did you also experience that when you first started that, that you had to kind of try to cultivate that sense of community before it was self-sustaining? Like now, people are creating all the content, and there's this really great interaction, and you can just sit back and like, you know, jump in when needed, but really, you're not the one that's constantly drumming up the conversations.
Tori Kopke 37:34
100% in the early days, I had to subscribe to that kind of traditional Facebook on theme days. On Tuesdays, we talk about this, on Wednesdays, we post about this. I think I did that for about six months, and I have ADHD, and then I forgot about it one day, and I found that my Facebook group was already operating without me, and I kind of thought, Oh, I've made it. So, yes, I definitely found that there and I do find still, that there's times where I'm like, Okay, we need to activate the Facebook again. So in it must have been about May I intentionally was like, I'm going to reactivate the Facebook group, because I did feel like it was starting to fall a bit flat. So I did an email marketing challenge in it, and that was just purely to reactivate the conversation, pull people back in and start conversations again, start flowing naturally. So there are times when I still have to kind of step up and think it's time to really engage and activate the Facebook group, but for the most part, I can kind of step back, repurpose a bit of content, and occasionally ask a great question that's going to spark conversation.
Mia Fileman 38:41
Yeah, you've got a fantastic group. There's over 2000 members. It's so good. I love being part of it. I wish I had more time to dedicate to it. Now that I'm home, I would love to tell me more about this challenge that you ran.
Tori Kopke 38:55
Yeah, look, I was just, I think, at the time, thinking that email marketing was something that so many people don't do out of intimidation, or maybe they've sent an email before and they're just like, 'Ah, I sent an email once. I can't send it again because it's been so long.' And so that's why I kind of started thinking, let's just do an email marketing challenge. I've got a copywriting coach that is part of my Mastermind. And so we just decided to do this email marketing challenge together and give them, as well, a bunch of like, templates and scripts to bring their emails to life. So starting with your opt-in, I think I gave them about six or seven different kind of, like lead magnet templates that they could customise for their business, a bunch of lead magnet ideas. And then we talked about, you know, the content of the emails, the follow up, the importance of actually having a nurture sequence, and then the importance of sending regular emails, as well as, what does kind of a launch or a campaign email sequence look like. So we made it as comprehensive as we could for free challenge in four days?
Mia Fileman 40:01
Yeah, absolutely. And then do you find that your How it works is they join the free Facebook group first, as a bit of a get to know you, get get a feel for working for you, and then convert to a paid offer.
Tori Kopke 40:15
I would say that almost 75% of my clients come from the Facebook group. So yeah, it's, it's pretty huge. I would say a majority of my clients, like last time I looked in Kajabi, almost everyone had the Facebook group tag before they made the conversion. So it's, it's pretty consistent that people will be in the group. They may not necessarily be interacting in the group. They might be those kind of silent observers, but when they they decide to convert, I can usually find that they're already in that group.
Mia Fileman 40:46
Well, what an absolutely amazing case study for investing in building a community, because it is a lot of work to be a community manager, but if 75% of your customers are coming through there, then, like, that's pretty telling.
Tori Kopke 41:00
Oh, it's absolutely worth it, and I know that it provides the greater community so much more than just kind of a great funnel for me and my business.
Mia Fileman 41:10
Yeah. Oh no, certainly, for sure. Well, it's been an absolute pleasure chatting with you. Tori, I could have chatted to you for several more hours. I really appreciate your time, especially since I know that it's so pressed with all the things that you have going on in your life. So and I'm really extremely happy that the tech held up, because, you know,
Tori Kopke 41:28
so very much, very happy about that. All right, great.
Mia Fileman 41:31
Just chat with you, and I'll put all of your links in the show notes. Sounds
Tori Kopke 41:35
Sounds great. Thank you so much for having me.
Mia Fileman 41:39
Thank you. You listened right up until the end, so why not hit that subscribe button and keep the good marketing rolling? Podcast reviews are like warm hugs, and they're also the best way to support a small business. You can connect with me, Mia Fileman on Instagram or LinkedIn and feel free to send me a message. I'm super friendly.
