Mia Fileman 0:05
Are you tired of marketing jargon and empty promises? Me too. I'm Mia Fileman, and this is Got Marketing? On the show. I deep dive with marketing insiders to unpack successful campaigns. I didn't earn the nickname the 'Campaign Lady' for nothing. Get actionable tips, learn from winning strategies and avoid falling victim to marketing fads and fakery.
Mia Fileman 0:30
Hello Friend and welcome to the Got Marketing? Show. Today, I am talking with a sports management expert about what entrepreneurs can learn from athletes.
Kathryn Deiulio 0:42
If you're a female, it's even probably more tricky again, because at the age of 30, if you want to have children, you really need to start making a decision. And it is probably one of the environments where you question you can't really be pregnant playing professional sport. So it's a lot to think about. You have a small window to maximize opportunities and the role of an agent, any agent, arguably across any sport, is to really maximise those off-field opportunities for their clients.
Mia Fileman 1:08
That was Katherine De Iulio, having worked in the sports industry for over 20 years, Katherine has played a pivotal role in representing many of Australia's top athletes. She has represented clients across various sporting codes and industries, including AFL, AFLW, netball, Olympics, Paralympics, cricket and the entertainment industry. Welcome to the show.
Kathryn Deiulio 1:32
Thanks for having me.
Mia Fileman 1:33
I'm channelling my inner... Do you know that show on Netflix? 'Nobody Wants This'. I love that.
Kathryn Deiulio 1:40
Yes, love it.
Mia Fileman 1:40
And the two sisters are sitting together, and they record a podcast. This is the vibe.
Kathryn Deiulio 1:45
Yes, not sisters, but sister-in-laws.
Mia Fileman 1:50
Close enough, this is the closest I'm going to get to a sister having one awesome brother. Okay, so let's get into it, because there's actually a lot, as we've been talking over, you know, various dinners and functions since our siblings have been married. Yes, that there is so many parallels between athletes and entrepreneurs. But before we get into that, you have spent 20 years. You've had quite an illustrious career in sports management. What's next for you?
Kathryn Deiulio 2:21
Well, that's a good question. I mean, I started my career as a young 20 year old, literally, the day after I had finished uni and got this phenomenal job where I was working for a really big sports management company. We're a startup, but we built that over the years, and that was my life for 20 years. It was my identity for 20 years, having my life that was sort of who I was referred to and all I knew. And then recently, I decided to resign from that career with the never the intention of doing that. I really probably thought I could do it forever, but I was placed into a position where I had to sort of really think about what I wanted to do. I'm a mom. I've got three young kids, but I didn't want that to define me and who I was and when I stopped working. I thought the concept of just being a mum, at least for the next couple of years until my younger started school, was a great idea. But as most women know, you know, we've got this desire to do more, to kind of ignite that creative spark that says, give this a go. And you know, you're more than just a mum, you know you can do things. So just couldn't get rid of that, that spark. And one day, I got home from a 30-minute gym session and had told my husband, I'm starting a business. It is called 'Behind Your Brand'. And I had it all thought out, planned out, and that was it. So Behind Your Brand soon started. Within a day, I registered a business, and that's where we are at today, still figuring it out. Amazing things to think about, yeah.
Mia Fileman 3:55
I totally call bullshit on this idea that we can have it all. I've been a, you know, an entrepreneur now for 15 years, and it's I still can't be all in with one thing, like, I always feel the guilt, even after 15 years, even I've only got two kids, and they're both in school now, I still feel like I am failing at both spectacularly. And it's it really shits me because our partners don't ever have to feel that way, no.
Kathryn Deiulio 4:26
And it's the mum guilt. You talk to... many mums I speak to on a daily basis at the kinder and school drop off, and when we're in that environment of being a mum that is always seen to be a mum with screaming kids at the park or after school pickups, and I think that's how we're viewed. But when you actually get down to it, when you talk to these women, you find out that they have so many incredible traits, it's just they're not able to debate it right now. Or the thought of doing everything and doing everything good is a really interesting thought, and I talk to lots of mums feeling like they're failing. At home and in business, and is that balance ever right? And will we ever get it right? I don't know, but I think we just need to try and continue to do the best we can in both worlds. Yeah, and support each other too. Yeah,
Mia Fileman 5:11
Totally, totally. And I look, I think that being an entrepreneur does give you a lot more flexibility. You know, you can be at home for school holidays, and then you're trying to work while your kids are at home, which is honestly my definition of torture. But like, you technically can be in the same house as your children while they're on school holidays, and you can pick them up from school and run them to sport and, like, run a car office. Like, this is a thing amongst my peers, it's like, how do you set up your car office? How do you set up your because, like, this is what we have to do. And then I get criticism from my kids, going, why can't you just be at basketball watching me play basketball? Like, because it's 338, it's 330 you know, like, and there are other parents who are at work until 6 pm and then they pick you up. And so it's so difficult, I find.
Kathryn Deiulio 6:04
Yes, the challenge of being there and being really there, I think, and being present in the moment, but it's a juggle. And they do say that women can multitask. So if we can't do it, I don't know who can.
Mia Fileman 6:15
Yeah, I know. I just yeah, anyway, we could have a 50-minute discussion about that, but I want to really understand, from your perspective, having managed these athletes for 20 years, the role of brand in professional athletes. So like, What was your role in guiding athletes to develop a brand as a professional sports agent, and why do you think it's essential to have a personal brand in 2024 and beyond?
Kathryn Deiulio 6:42
Absolutely. Well, I think firstly, gone are the days when athletes can just rely on their playing ability to get a successful contract or to get drafted. These days, it is a vigorous process to, you know, to take that next step and actually play sport in Australia professionally. The athletes are obviously getting tested and assessed on their ability to play sport, but also mental, you know, ability to be able to think into difficult situations. And so there's all these tests that are performed before an athlete's even given a contract. You know, at the end of the day, these are big sporting clubs that are contracting these athletes, and they have values and a culture that they want to adhere to to ultimately ensure that their fans are following that club. So athletes these days have to perform extensively, both on the field and off the field, and I think that that's where their brand comes into it. Our job as professional sports agent, I've been fortunate enough to work at two phenomenal management companies that was a completely 100% Sport Management Agency, where we were holistic, so we were skilled and qualified to be able to negotiate professional sports contracts. But beyond that, myself and colleagues, we were basically the entire management team behind these athletes. So we provided administrational services, life services. We assisted them with their finance everything that went on behind the scenes. Ultimately, our job was to work tirelessly behind the scenes to ensure that their off-field life was pretty good and reflective of a great brand, so that they were able to perform to the best of their ability on field. And I think in 2024 we live in a social, technological AI, emerging world, so that you need to everybody, really, not just athletes, but everybody needs to have control of their own brand to ensure what they reflect in the real life is also a replica of their online persona. You know, how often do you before you meet someone, you go and google them, and the first thought is that we instantly judge them on what we see online. So I think it's really important to ensure that you know the online matches, or the real-world matches, the online persona.
Kathryn Deiulio 6:57
Actually, one of the My Favorite compliments when people meet me is they're like, Oh, you are exactly in person, what you are online. And I think that like people are not. They're like, Oh no, completely different. It's like, yeah, chalk and cheese. So what are we talking like, planning their trips, or?
Kathryn Deiulio 9:03
We are talking everything. So most athletes, and depending in sport, you know, they will get drafted into professional sport at the age of 17. These kids have not even finished school. So you know, they are coming into the Australian SportsWorld as now with social media. People sort of have a bit of an idea who they are, but at 17, you don't even know who you are. Yeah, and there is a huge expectation from the public, from fans, from people all over the world, really, that you've already got your life sorted at that age, and you are still figuring it out. So you know they're they might be earning 1,2,3 $100,000 in their first year as a 17 year old, in comparison to an apprentice or somebody doing an internship that might be on, you know, working. So there is an expectation. So because of that, we had a duty of care to ensure that that financial income that they were earning was safe. So we would budget, you know, you might. Be only $200,000 a year, but your weekly budget is $200 a week because you need, whilst you're performing on the big stage, you need to also secure yourself. You know, these athletes don't have a career that lasts probably as long as you and I, so every bit of income that they earn has to be secured.
Mia Fileman 10:16
Oh, that's really good. That's really honourable from your past employer, that they put that front and center, because you're right, like, what age do they play to, like, 35?
Kathryn Deiulio 10:25
If you're lucky, okay, I mean, the average career, and it differs from sports person, just, you know, from sport to sport, but you're talking some people get one contract, as in two, three years. You know, the average in Australia might be around five to six years, but you're lucky if you're playing until you're 30, and if you're a female, it's even probably more tricky again because at the age of 30, if you want to have children, you really need to start making a decision. And it is probably one of the environments where you question, you can't really be pregnant playing professional sport. So it's a lot to think about. You have a small window to maximise opportunities and the role of an agent, any agent, arguably, across any sport, across any country, is to really maximise that off-field, those off-field opportunities for their clients.
Mia Fileman 11:13
Isn't it a joy just to be a woman because, like, we're delaying having the kids so that we can have the career, so we can set ourselves up financially, but then, as a result, the amount of people that I've spoken to recently that have to have IVF to get pregnant, and, like, the cost involved in that so, like, you know, setting yourself up financially to then go and have to spend, however, 10s of 1000s of dollars in IVF. It's just, it's just two shit choices, yeah, basically.
Kathryn Deiulio 11:40
And even, what's interestingly enough, and I did have a chat with the client few years ago, is that when you're a female professional athlete, your body from the age of, you know, five or six, when you start playing your sport competitively, undergoes a lot of physical stress, so that by the time you are in your late 20s or 30s, whilst you're dealing with other issues. It's actually really hard to naturally fall pregnant. So these women have all this going on, plus they're making a decision about their career, and then they're trying to work out, can my body actually get pregnant? And so you're dealing with a lot of different challenges that you know often these women face behind the scenes. Recently, we've started to see more females come out and actively talk about this, and it's great to see national sporting organisations and clubs really start to foster this environment where they are nurturing these women that want to have children, but it's still a choice and a decision that these women have to make.
Mia Fileman 12:33
So are you saying that to be a professional athlete, to get the good contracts, to get the good agent to, get the good team, you also have to be marketable?
Kathryn Deiulio 12:44
Absolutely. So very few managers these days will take a client on purely for their athletic ability, and in some minority sports, where the athletes actually earn a significant amount more in commercial opportunities than playing sports. Means that managers need to look at this, because, you know, agents get a if you're negotiating sports contract, agents get a percentage of that sports contract, but a larger percentage comes from media and marketing deals. So if you're not negotiating that sports contract, or you're getting minimal for it, we need to assess if, if the marketability is there. And in women's sport, you know, they are earning significantly more in marketing opportunities than playing, because the sponsorship dollar just kind of to grow the sport. So it is absolutely something that we need to look at, because they've got to maximise those, you know, those opportunities.
Mia Fileman 13:38
And so that applies to entrepreneurship as well. You might you might be the best designer in the world or the best photographer in the world, but if you don't have that personal brand behind you, the work doesn't speak for itself. Is the point I'm trying to make. This idea of like, Oh, I just let my work speak for myself. Like, that's not the world that we live in. Nothing speaks for itself. I'm considering writing a book, and I've been speaking to some publishers, and they're like, if we're going to back you to write a book, you need to make a commitment that you are going to continue to grow your social media audience. It's like, oh, it's not enough to write a freaking book and make it a good book. I also have to market the book.
Kathryn Deiulio 14:23
Absolutely, and I think it's not enough now to just do your job. If you are competing in an online world, doesn't matter what profession you are, what industry you come from, to really grow success and be recognized and to be touted as an expert in your field, you need to have an online presence.
Mia Fileman 14:42
Yeah. And I think what people misunderstand about branding is that you're like, Well, I don't want a personal brand, so that's all good. That's not a choice like brands exist in the minds of customers. So if you don't drive your own narrative, curate your own personal brand, your audience will just. Create one for you, absolutely, and they will piece it together with whatever they whatever perceptions, misunderstanding bits and pieces in order to create a brand for you that might not reflect what you want it to be. So you might as well be intentional about it.
Kathryn Deiulio 15:16
Absolutely, yeah, and I think you got to be relatable now to people. Buy from people, and in the online female entrepreneur space, when you are buying a product, you want to know who's behind that brand, what they stand for, what their values are, and does that align with yourself? And you'll find now, especially with sustainability and ethically sourced you know, products and services, people want to know more behind that brand that they're purchasing.
Mia Fileman 15:39
Yeah, absolutely, we all do where it's like voyeurism, where we don't want to see the polished perfection. You know, that's not relatable. It's like, okay, that's great, awesome. We want to we want to see how the sausage is made.
Kathryn Deiulio 15:48
Everybody wants to know. And the number one question I would get asked as a sports agent is, we know that they're great on the field. We see that. What are they like behind the scenes? You know, what makes them unique, what makes them different? And it's that raw, authentic, organic, you know, character behind that athlete or that entrepreneur that people really want to get to know. I think that sometimes we just struggle showing that, and sometimes you don't want to show it, you know, because there are some things that are personal that you want to keep in your in, you know, personally behind the scenes, but we are in an environment now where that is going to start to get forced out.
Mia Fileman 16:26
Yeah, I still believe that you can craft. I mean, everyone has a story, and you still get to decide what story you tell. So I talk a lot about my journey through entrepreneurship, but I never talk about my marriage and I never talk about my children, I just feel like that's a line that I'm not willing to go through. But that doesn't mean that you still can't show the person behind the brand, and because I'm proactive in doing it, and another entrepreneur should be the same, you get to craft that narrative, and you get to decide what's off the table and on the table, but this idea that you're expecting people to trust you and be open with you, but you're not willing to be open with them. I mean, you can't have it both ways. Sweetheart.
Mia Fileman 17:13
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Mia Fileman 17:57
So how proactive are athletes in taking control of their brands in Australia compared to around the world?
Kathryn Deiulio 18:05
Yeah, I think athletes are very aware of the importance of brand management, but personally, I just don't think, particularly in Australia, they are proactive in controlling it. I think they have a lot going on in their life. You know, these athletes that we see are playing in training sport seven days a week, and it is drilling to them, from coaches and clubs like, this is your number one priority. This is what you are here to do. It'd be like a business owner saying, you know, I work in my business. 80% of you know my week. That is what they're there to do. But there is a perception, and they do need to they are seen as role models, so they do need to ensure that they're doing their space in the community. But there is a perception that they need to be everything to everybody. So I think that the role of the manager is really coming to play, probably the last 10 to 15 years, where they are ensuring that the athlete's brand is on point. But I think in comparison to athletes around the world, when we look at the US and Europe in particular, these athletes are next level. They take absolute control of their own brand. They are so confident in what they do they don't really care what others think about them. And if you look at someone like Cristiano Ronaldo, who has reportedly earned like a billion dollars in his career, the way he took YouTube on, he just signed up within 90 minutes had, you know, 15 million, sorry, 1 million subscribers. Yet, if an Australian athlete did that, I think there would be questions as to, are they still wanting to play sports, and are they taking that seriously. You often find with these athletes that have a social media presence, or abig social media presence, that if they don't play well on the weekend, they will say, Oh, were they distracted because of their social work doing was and we've seen this reportedly just recently with that, with people in the AFL, you know, you can't have two good things and do it right. And if you do, people will question, are they really taking their sport seriously. And I think that that's the culture of Australian sport, and within teams, in particular, there's a bit of an expectation to just sort of do your sport and do some stuff on the side. But, you know, don't really show too much of it, because, you know, you're there to play sport.
Mia Fileman 20:09
Right. Have you seen the new Netflix documentary about Cristiano Ronaldo's wife? Oh, my God. I love it. I started to watch it yesterday, but I'm so interested in the strategy behind it. Like, why?
Kathryn Deiulio 20:21
Yeah, it's an interesting one attitude because we are finding that, I think, when you're a professional athlete, you do have an expectation that you're portrayed in a certain way and that you know you're getting paid millions of dollars to put yourself out there, but you still need to conform to the club that you're playing with. Yeah. The interesting space is that the partners of the players are really taking this online world, and sort of using it to their example. And it is a bit of a behind the scenes look. If you're not getting it directly from the athlete, you might be getting it from from their partner. And there are not really a lot of restrictions around that. You know, as an athlete, there are a lot of restrictions what you can and can't do. But the look behind Georgina's world really kind of gives you a glimpse of next level, like how they live and what they do, and the fact that she has really been able to establish her own brand off the back of Cristiano Ronaldo is phenomenal, and a space that I think we're entering at the moment.
Mia Fileman 21:13
Yeah, I kind of looked at it thinking, okay, they've got three kids. He's, you know, seven days a week training is the biggest athlete in the world. She, I mean, she was working at Gucci as a sales representative, but she might have had big aspirations for a career of her own, which had to go on ice because you're Cristiano Ronaldo's wife. And, like, yes, she's very, very wealthy, but she might have had big aspirations. And so then this idea of like, well, let's make this Netflixdocumentary to show the couple. This works really well for Cristiano Ronaldo's brand because I see family man. I see, you know, he didn't go and marry a supermodel. He married someone who was a sales assistant. Yes, it was that Gucci. But still, she wasn't wealthy, she wasn't like, you know, a swimsuit model like everyone else. Shakira's ex-husband cheated on her. So like, you know, they've, they've got this player reputation, but we don't see that in the documentary from Ronaldo. And then, you know, like, how did he find time in his week to film a Netflix documentary? But I sort of looked at it going well, he did it for her, yeah, because he knows that she has been like the home, lighting the home fires, keeping the home fires warm with all the help in the world, of course. And now it's her opportunity to shine and build a brand. And I think it was great.
Kathryn Deiulio 22:38
It's amazing that, like women like this are getting seen. Because what people don't realise is, a lot of the athletes that are married and do have families, their entire family revolves around the direction of that player. Yeah, and in an AFL world, you know, there's Trade Week, so you don't actually get the choice to go to a club if your club doesn't want to renew your contract and you want to keep playing in the AFL world and another club wants to take you that trade has just done it. It is like a commercial transaction. It is like if you were at a business and you wanted to keep being in that world, but your company didn't want you anymore. You are a commodity that gets traded to another club. Now that could mean picking up your family and relocating to another state that you really don't have too much of a say in, and the partner behind you just has to support, you know, their partner, to ensure that they can continue to play professional sport.
Mia Fileman 23:34
Well, I do that every two years, so full sympathy.
Kathryn Deiulio 23:39
There is a point to make because in a world now where a lot of these partners are gaining attraction on social media, it is perception, right? Like we said before, it is an online brand, and you just see one snippet of their life; we don't know what these women and families go through and the same with the men I managed, some very successful Australian netballers who it was their time to shine. So their partners were actually the supporting partners behind that. And what I found really interesting is some of these women had had children and were then playing sport and were trying to breastfeed in and amongst training and playing and everything else. So it was the father in this instance that were ensuring that, you know, the kids were taken care of so that mum could jump on the Netball court and play netball for Australia.
Mia Fileman 24:24
Awesome. I love stories like that. More about it, please. So okay, how can we apply all of these to entrepreneurs in your in your view?
Kathryn Deiulio 24:32
Yeah, I think, from my perspective, the biggest area that's missed at the moment is this idea around the importance of brand and life management for entrepreneurs. I think, that athletes have so many people in their corner guiding them, as we spoke about, on and off the field, whether it be their coach, their club, their manager, normally, they've got a management team. And what's incredible in Australian sport the moment is that these clubs are so heavily resourced with player welfare, development managers, ensuring that the athlete have skills, you know, outside of sport, so there really is an entire team around them to make sure that, you know, it's a safety net that they're, you know, ensuring to be the best person that they can be. I think when we look at entrepreneurs, you'll find that they probably don't think that they need these resources. You've probably got a phenomenal PA that does absolutely everything for them. And the thought of them having a team behind them probably just feels, oh, I don't, I don't need that. You know, that's not the way I want to run my life.
Mia Fileman 25:28
They even think that, sorry to interrupt. But they even think that their VA is, like, an indulgence, yeah? And I'm like, that's the bare minimum, yeah? Oh, I don't know if I can, you know, afford a VA,
Kathryn Deiulio 25:40
Yeah. And when you look at it, I mean entrepreneurs and athletes, they're two of the same kind. They're leaders in their space. They're working in a highly competitive environment. They need a team around them to succeed. They have goals and values that they need to be able to meet in order to be successful. So I think that it is something worth looking at. I mean, imagine a world where a entrepreneur had a business coach that they saw five to six times a week that just continued to make sure that they were on track and gave them positive and negative feedback, a full time management team that looked after absolutely everything. You go to work and do your thing, and we'll take care of the finances, the admin, the career planning, everything behind the scenes, tax time comes, we'll talk to your account on your account on your behalf to get all that sort of stuff sorted. Yet we know that you want to be, you know, financially free by the time you retire. We'll talk to your financial planner and your buyer's advocate and put this plan in place so that you can be successfully taken care of outside of your job. So, you know, this is the environment that these athletes live in, and I think business and entrepreneurs aren't too far off. It's just they probably don't view the world that way, and they don't have access or, you know, the world isn't set up to support that environment right now.
Kathryn Deiulio 25:41
Yeah, I also think they think, oh, but I'm not an athlete, so I don't have the earning potential of an athlete. You have more, you have more, much more.
Kathryn Deiulio 25:41
And your career. So before we spoke about the average career of an athlete being, you know, five to six years the career of a business person is you probably start in your 20s and retire in your 60s or 70s. So you're talking 40 years on some of these athletes. So it would be an investment, I would have thought, yeah.
Mia Fileman 27:15
I mean, sure, we're never going to earn as much as Cristiano Ronaldo and Messi, but that is the point 1% of uhm...
Kathryn Deiulio 27:24
But imagine if you had a team around you to help you do that. Yeah, we all talk about being time for because, and I look at my husband, you know, his main job is just business. You know, getting what I have to do done. There's no time for anything else to think outside the square. But if you had a team of 20 people behind your brand, activating this, activating that, imagine what you could achieve.
Mia Fileman 27:46
I agree, and I think this is something I talk about a lot with Fiona Johnson, who you met yesterday, this idea that especially female entrepreneurs were so risk averse, we're like, oh, that I have to wait till I can afford to hire a VA to hire them and I get that I understand we don't want to be spending beyond our means, but also, business is fundamentally risky. You don't get into business to just have, like, a reliable monthly income, if that's what you want, then, you know, go and get a job. We need to take risks, because otherwise, how are we going to grow Absolutely, how are we going to see the potential of what's possible with our businesses, unless we're like, you know what I will invest in a business coach. I will invest in a VA or an executive assistant that does manage my super freaking annulation. So, yeah, I love that.
Kathryn Deiulio 28:40
I think the concept of investing in ourselves scares us. Yeah, I think when you are a celebrity or an athlete, you already have an identifiable brand. You are already famous in the public eye, and that, you know, calls for a bit of insurance around you. But we don't see ourselves in the same light. So we probably think, if we're doing this, you know, that thought of, are you getting ahead of yourself, sort of comes into play. And I don't want people thinking I'm, you know, better than what I am. And I think it's a really interesting concept that we probably think about this sound, that we don't activate it because, because of that reason.
Mia Fileman 29:15
That is such a good point. This speaks to like what Mark Pollard says about outsourcing your confidence. I feel like so many women, they wait for that external validation. Oh, well, if I was a legitimate expert, or if I was really good, then I would have 100,000 Instagram followers, and then then it would be my time to shine because somebody has validated it. That's like, well, to earn 100,000 followers, you need to make some big investments. You need to, like, do some shit and like, you know, take some risks to build that profile. They just they're waiting, yep.
Kathryn Deiulio 29:50
Yep. And I think as women, we are always so worried what everybody will think about us if we are doing too much online, then are we taking time away from our families, or are we, are we taking time away. From working in, you know, in the business world, so we are so conscious of what everybody thinks about us, and that how we are portrayed and how our brand is portrayed, that it prohibits us from really putting ourselves out there, because we're afraid of what people might think.
Mia Fileman 30:14
Totally The other thing that I want to talk about is that you sort of mentioned it about athlete welfare development. I would say, you would know, but what the majority of athletes get mental health support, they would see a psychologist, right?
Kathryn Deiulio 30:28
Absolutely these resources. I would say, arguably, at most professional sporting clubs Australia, it has become a mandatory resource that the mental health sector is available and readily accessible to them, whether within their club or within the National Sporting organisation. There are resources full time to help these athletes in most sports,
Mia Fileman 30:47
Yeah, well, as it should be, right? But entrepreneurs, they seem, in talking to them, they seem to only access that support when there's a crisis, when it's already the house is already burning, that they access those supports. But I'm going to start seeing a full-time psychologist because of all of the stuff that we've been talking about, the mum guilt, the balance, the like shortness of breath, because I'm supposed to be in three different places at once, the, you know, one not wanting to let so and so down and, yeah, all of that, I think, is such an like, if you're thinking about, Okay, what should my team look like as an entrepreneur? I think mental health support should be one of the first.
Kathryn Deiulio 31:28
And in-house, I think it's very different, where they say, Come on, speak to somebody and go and find your own resources. But when that resource is in house, we have someone for you to talk to. It's completely confidential. We want to ensure that you know your mental health is first and foremost. I think that that's a big shift in where maybe businesses need to start to be really looking. We talk a lot about work-life balance and working from home and flexibility. Well, I think mental health should probably really be at the forefront if businesses are serious about looking after their staff. I think that these resources really need to be explored and offered in-house.
Mia Fileman 32:05
Definitely for corporates or medium-sized businesses because there is a huge waiting list, particularly in Victoria, to see a psychologist post-COVID because everyone needs those resources. So you could be waiting a really long time to actually see someone. So, I agree with you, if you are working for like, you know, a L'Oreal or a, you know, big organisation that they should have, they should provide that for their staff. Absolutely. Yeah, totally. So you spoke about this a little bit earlier, but athletes are the new influences. They get brand deals and sponsorships. I've been wondering whether this is a conflict with their position as a role model.
Kathryn Deiulio 32:44
It's a really interesting space at the moment when the influencer space started sort of creeping up on us over the last 510 years; I would ask athletes, do you see yourself as an influencer? And I think almost every single one of them said absolutely not. They view themselves, and we, as spectators, have always viewed athletes as role models. I think it's a really interesting concept around the idea of influence versus inspire. I think athletes have been seen and should be seen to inspire fans. They you know that they're an inspirational source to remind their fans to believe in yourself that hard work and dedication pays off, and you too can reach your goals if you do what we do. I think that influencers have an incredible space at the moment, and there's, you know, it's an ability for them to really become who they want, to become online. But I think the key difference is, is that their job is really to persuade or guide an audience into making this, you know, taking a specific action or purchasing it, making the decision. And I think the problem that we have facing society today, especially for young people, is this view that there is a shortage of ethically driven role models in the online space. I think instead of being inspired, young people are being influenced online. And I think that you know the concept of the the metrics, like how many likes or followers you have instantly makes you become somebody that these people want to follow. And then it does probably set unreally Stick expectations and a shift that young people might want to chase the social media dream. I think the other very interesting thing to keep in mind now is that marketing budgets which might have previously been allocated towards celebrities or athletes have been completely cut, so no longer and even in sports you know, if you look at an athlete, even sport brands previously where they were offering long term ambassador deals for athletes, you know, you earn X amount of money over certain years to deliver these deliverables, have been cut because they're able to get content creators to produce engaging content that can still connect with their audience at maybe a fraction of the price, but they're able to really mass market by using these people. And the problem that athletes have is that a lot of them don't have the natural ability to produce engaging online content that doesn't naturally come to them. I mean, the one that comes to mind is last year when our female Aussie netballers were really trying to make some extra money in endorsements, the beauty industry is where a lot of the spend was. And so they were asked, can you promote beauty products? And they gave it a go. And you know, some of them did okay, but I wouldn't naturally say that it was engaging authentic, genuine content. And let's be honest, they can't do what a beauty influencer can do. And so they're forced to do something that's not authentic within their world, but it's a real crossroads right now, because if you don't engage in these activities or upskill, you are missing out on sponsorship opportunities.
Mia Fileman 35:49
Yeah, that is so interesting, isn't it? I love what you said about how we've got these influences now inspiring and influencing our children. But are they the best role models? And like, there is a little bit of a trend towards, like, de- influencing, but then, like, that's how an influencer makes their money, is getting a brand deal, getting you to buy a product. So like, they might do that for a short amount of time, but then they go back to just promoting. Buy this lipstick or buy this toner, and so forth.
Kathryn Deiulio 36:18
Yeah, it's an interesting concept. And as a mother of I think you know you can't stop your children from using technology, but I just think, in a world where there was some inspiring content out there, and you're navigating your kids to watch this content, who would it come from? What would it be? And what would a world look like where we are trying to focus more on inspiring than influencing?
Mia Fileman 36:39
Yeah, it broke my heart when I was asking my son and his friends like, Oh, what do you guys want to be when you grow up? And it's not builder or doctor or whatever, it's like, oh, YouTuber. They make a lot of money. Well, only a very, very, very small percentage of them make a lot of money. The rest make hardly anybody. Yeah,
Kathryn Deiulio 36:57
but it then goes to bed. Where do our young people get their inspiration from because they're spending so much more time online,
Mia Fileman 37:03
Exactly anyway, that's a conversation for another time. So without naming any names, can you share any kind of juicy stories about athletes?
Kathryn Deiulio 37:12
I have lots. I have lots, but I think one that will really resonate with your listeners and followers is this ability to think creatively on the spot. So we've just had eight foot grand final week, and I'm sure many people that are into sport and fashion and goss have just watched the Brownlow. And going back nine years ago, it was the 2015 Brownlow, and I got a phone call from a very high-profile client that year telling me that he was on his way to Melbourne, and within a few hours, he was to walk the red carpet for the Brownlow. He was the hot tip to win, and he had just played in a preliminary final with a broken leg. and being this very stylish player that he was, he did not want to walk the red carpet with the moon boot or with crutches, so it was my job to very quickly try and find him. The brief was a very stylish walking stick or cane. Okay, and I had about three hours to deliver this, this, this cane to him at Cran Facino to walk the red carpet. So I had to think creatively on the spot a who has a walking stick that would be stylish, and the first person that came to my mind was my husband's Nona, who lived in Lilidal. So off I went to Lilidal to get her walking stick. I had to make sure that she then stayed home for the rest of the day and night because she wasn't able to walk around. And within an hour, I got to Crown Casino. On the way I made a detour to get the walking stick that soon became his, engraved with his name and number. He was very happy he was able to walk the red carpet, do the media interviews and talk to the town was all about this, this look that he had with the walking stick. Within hours, he won the Brownlow, which was phenomenal. And safe to say that when I never got her walking stick back. But it was auctioned off for charity, which was phenomenal. And I just remember the next day reading the Daily Mail where the article read, 'Yes, hecane', the positive PR around. That was amazing. And it was one of those moments where I then later went back home and watched the brow line thought, Oh, I did a good day's work today.
Mia Fileman 39:27
How much should it get auctioned off for?
Kathryn Deiulio 39:29
I don't exactly know, but I do know that lots of proceeds went, Yeah, to a really lovely charity and that we had to go and buy a new whopping stick.
Mia Fileman 39:39
I'm looking at the photo here, and it's super stylish. It is stylish. Yeah, it's got that real kind of, like Italian gentleman.
Kathryn Deiulio 39:48
And you, you love to know that at the at the after party, I think this walking stick amongst the brown metal that got passed around to certain individuals, I think it was a walking stick that was the selfie that everybody wanted to.
Mia Fileman 39:59
Oh, my goodness, I love that. What a great story. Thank you so much for being so generous with your time and your ideas. Good luck with behind your brand. We're here if you need any advice from seasoned, slash-jaded entrepreneurs. But like, honestly, I wouldn't go back. I'm unemployable, not because I'm unemployable, but so I'm self-proclaimed unemployable because I'm not going back to wearing bras, shoes, working before 11 am, all of those things. It is really, really, really difficult, but you've got to choose your hard. And I think that running my business, you know, having that flexibility, calling my own shots, not having to answer to anybody. It's still worth it.
Kathryn Deiulio 40:00
Yeah, and I actually I'm a few months off turning 40, and my husband keeps sending me all this stuff on Instagram. and one of the things he sent me the other day was that women at the age of 40 really start their careers. And I thought that was crazy because I think women in their 40s are probably either halfway through their career or really, you know, working on their family. And the thought of starting your career at that age just seemed crazy to me. I thought we were supposed to be looking at retirement, but it's something that really resonated with me. So I am excited to see what the chapter holds, and everybody that knows me knows that I am a very planned, precise person, but in this new world, I'm really keen to see where the journey takes me, step outside of my comfort zone, do things that I never thought I would have done even six months ago and see what comes up.
Mia Fileman 40:43
Awesome. Well, best of luck. I know you're gonna smash it, and I look forward to being on this journey with you.
Kathryn Deiulio 41:36
Thanks, Mia, thanks for having me.
Mia Fileman 41:39
Thank you. You listened right up until the end, so why not hit that subscribe button and keep the good marketing rolling? Podcast reviews are like warm hugs, and they're also the best way to support a small business. You can connect with me, Mia Fileman on Instagram or LinkedIn, and feel free to send me a message. I'm super friendly.
