Mia Fileman 00:05
Life's too short for crap marketing. The Got Marketing? Podcast is for marketers, business owners and entrepreneurs who want marketing that's fun, accessible and meaningful. Join me, Mia Fileman for inspired chats with my favorite marketing insiders about marketing that works, campaigns that inspire and the fads, fakery and false prophets to avoid. Hello, friend, welcome to the Got Marketing Show. Today we're going to talk about healthy marketing, specifically marketing for health providers. But we're also going to talk about some other stuff because this guest has been someone that has been in my community for the last three years. And she always shares such brilliant insights. And so I have convinced her to come on to the show. This is her very first podcast episode to discuss lots of things. We'll talk about healthcare marketing, which is her jam, we're going to talk about campaigns because that's my jam. And then we're also going to talk about ethical marketing, because you know, I love doing that, but also our unpopular view on content pillars.
Claire Hewitt 01:17
I'm not sure if other mums feel that way. But when I first went on my first maternity leave, I felt this real fear that the world was going to carry on. And in a year's time, I'd be really behind, which is wrong, the world will not move on. It doesn't go that fast, no matter what you're thinking and you will not be left behind.
Mia Fileman 01:33
That was Claire Hewitt, an experienced marketer and director of Well Communications, an agency taking care of medical and health related businesses, Australia wide. Welcome to the show, Claire.
Claire Hewitt 01:46
Thank you. Good to be here.
Mia Fileman 01:47
I can't believe I convinced you. I can't believe it.
Claire Hewitt 01:51
I know I can't either actually because I've, well, I did last year to kind of think maybe I'll go on a podcast. And I just didn't find one that I thought was the right place. So when I got the invite, I thought, stop saying no. And just jump in. Here I am.
Mia Fileman 02:06
Well, I'm incredibly flattered. So how did we first connect? Was it the For the Love of Marketing Facebook group or something else?
02:14
I think it was probably through One Roof.
Mia Fileman 02:14
Okay,
Claire Hewitt 02:18
In some way there. And then I would have jumped across to the Facebook group. Early on when you're first making it. I think that's what it was.
Mia Fileman 02:26
Yeah, I can't believe it was three years ago.
Claire Hewitt 02:29
Yeah it was first, I think it was when you'd first launched your first video. Did you launch that in one roof?
Mia Fileman 02:35
The gurus video? Yeah, okay. Yes, definitely. That was from that from the gurus? Yeah, right. Okay. So I just went back into the for the love marketing Facebook group. And I clicked on your name, and it was like a member three years ago. I mean, I started that group three years ago. So you were one of the very first foundational members founding members. Yeah.
Claire Hewitt 02:57
It's a great group. There aren't a lot of marketing groups that I remain a part of. So they're hard work to run, and people jumping in and out. So it's a great one. Hopefully, you'll keep it going. I
Mia Fileman 03:08
am yeah, I am. It's my happy place. Absolutely love it. It's actually now it's self sustaining. It was a lot of work three years ago, but now it's at a place where people know what's up and what's down. And then they come in. And I think we've we've had enough years of people knowing what the status quo is. And I don't rule with an iron fist. I'm actually in a group called Women in marketing, and it's predominantly American based brands. And I cannot get a post approved in that hallway, whatever I asked for, I just can't or whatever, whatever. However I phrase it, they will not approve the post. I started by saying, Hey, I think I might want to look at just maybe talking to a social media coach just sense checking my strategy. They're like, No, if you're posting a job, it needs to have a salary. It needs to have a job description. So I'm just looking for recommendations on like, I haven't even gotten there yet. I just want a list of people to reach out to for a quote not that got shut down too. Every single post got knocked back. And so now I'm like, Okay, we're done here. Thank you.
Claire Hewitt 04:17
Yeah, yeah, it's hard to find, I guess probably for all industries and all interests that Facebook groups can end up with a life of their own, and sometimes are best avoided.
Mia Fileman 04:29
Exactly. Well, over the last three years, we have engaged in many discussions. It's so good, you can go into Facebook and you can see exactly what you've posted. And where I've commented. So that's good. And we
Claire Hewitt 04:43
my ramblings.
Mia Fileman 04:44
No, not at all, not at all. And while we we seem to share similar views on on many things, but often we don't, which I thought was going to make for a really great discussion.
Claire Hewitt 04:57
Sure.
Mia Fileman 04:58
But like I said, I feel like Every time he posts in that group, it's always interesting. And so I really wanted to take this relationship to the next level with this chat.
Claire Hewitt 05:09
Excellent. Well, I don't like coffee. So don't be sending me that.
Mia Fileman 05:13
Okay, no worries. So let's start off with you telling me how you ended up in healthcare marketing and why you ended up in healthcare marketing?
05:23
Sure. Well, I guess, you just, you know, it's I've currently got a child in year 12. And I'm currently telling her that, you know, when you're looking at what you're going to be, you just don't know what it's going to be. It doesn't exist. You know, if I had to go back to when I was at school, if someone had have said, You'll run your own business, and it looks like this, well, it didn't even exist. So how do you end up in a place that didn't exist 20 years ago, I guess. So I started in professional services marketing, well finance marketing, very early. So my first jobs were all in finance marketing. And after a couple of years, I realized that was, you know, I wasn't really interested in any kind of product, or FMCG just wasn't my space. So I've moved from finance. And then I ended up in law and legal marketing, really liked that, then post maternity leave. I'm not sure if other moms feel that way. But when I first went on my first maternity leave, I felt this real fear that the world was going to carry on. And in a year's time, I'd be really behind everybody else. Which if there's any mums with young babies listening, it's wrong, the world will not move on, it doesn't go that fast, no matter what you're thinking, and you will not be left behind. But during that time, I spent time learning blogs and social media and E-marketing types of strategies, which ended up meaning when I went back to work after my, I worked in between both, but when I went properly back after my second baby, I was actually much more advanced in that space than any of my colleagues who had simply been going to work doing all the things, but didn't have that time to invest in themselves. It was also a space where you couldn't do a course in that it was very self taught. So you had to invest the time and just figure it out your own way. And I ended up getting a call from a recruiter. And I thought they were calling about a legal role, because I was in legal at that time. And they said, No, this one's actually different. It's with the hospital, it's in health marketing. And I will always remember their words. And they were kind of like they're looking for someone who's interested in blogging. And we're just not interested in going into that space. So they actually sent me to the job interview, but not through them. So they it was like a favor for a friend because they weren't getting involved in that space. So if I went and chatted away, and they offered me the job as the marketing manager, well, over time, I became the marketing manager of a major private hospital in Victoria, where I stayed for about, I think it was just on nine years. And over that time, my projects were very much based around supporting individual practitioners. So in a hospital, you have a hospital, a physical building, you have the patients coming into that building, and those patients in private hospitals, slightly different in public. All of those patients coming through have a specific specialist, so maybe an orthopedic doctor or an obstetrician or neurosurgeon, whoever that might be, and their success is the hospital success. So it's often whilst you're marketing the hospital and doing comps for the hospital, you're also on the side helping individual specialists, which for hospitals could be 1000, specialists, depending on the size of the hospital, it's definitely going to be hundreds.
Claire Hewitt 08:40
So I spent a lot of time helping and working with doctors across that time. And, obviously, I couldn't, I had a very small team, we couldn't help all of them in every way. And I would often refer them, you know, say, if I knew you, I might say you should speak to Mia. And every single time over that nine years, when I went to check in, it hadn't worked out. So the marketing agency and the doctor through no one's fault, other than just a lack of understanding how the medical profession is just very different. And there's a lot of regulation in that space. They're also really busy people. And they work in very small timeframes. And so understanding how they work, understanding what they need, just kind of got to that point where I went, this is maybe something I could do myself. So threw it out there and you know, gave myself a year to see how it went. COVID started, got a little bit stressed, but went perfectly fine, actually, you know, went just as well through COVID as you could hope for, and it's just kept growing there. So I think coming up in the 30 June will be five years.
Mia Fileman 09:50
Oh my god. That's amazing.
Claire Hewitt 09:52
That's my long story.
Mia Fileman 09:53
Yes, your origin story is fantastic. And what an argument for professional development and teaching yourself and upskilling Yes, yeah, I didn't do any of that on maternity leave. I had lots of morning teas. And yeah, I milked the maternity leave for all that it was worth.
10:12
as you should, and anyone else out there listening should be should continue to do.
Mia Fileman 10:16
Yeah. And so what does that look like? You know, I'm sure, like any marketing role, your role is different every day. But what is the channel strategy look like for healthcare professionals? You mentioned socials, what else is the sort of the key parts?
Claire Hewitt 10:33
Yeah, so obviously, it can depend on the client. So I have a range of clients that could be allied health. So allied health or the, you know, your physios, nutrition dietitian, that it's different for allied health than it is for a GP clinic. And then it is for a specialist. So that's the word when we say specialist in medical, we mean people generally a surgeon, isn't least the easiest way to think of that. They all have different rules and things that they can and can't say and the way that they can interact. They also have really different paths to help people go to them, you can go, you can bring a physio turn up tomorrow, you can't bring a neurosurgeon and turn up tomorrow, we, I guess you could be really expensive. And also, it's probably two month wait, so the pathways to see them. And then again, you can't just turn up at a private hospital and or any hospital and say, Hey, I'd like to have my knee done today. Thanks very much. I'll wait here in the waiting room. So the pathways to receive health care can really indicate the channels that we will use. Referral marketing in a different way. Because obviously, the pathway for many people is you go to your GP, your GP says, I'm going to send you to a specialist. Now how do they make that decision? Out of all the specialists in your town? How are they making that decision? So we can really investigate and look at that space in different ways. Often, it's word of mouth. So if it's word of mouth, and my friend Jenny has said, I see this person that may happen, but then you're going to look up, well, what are the contact details for that person. So it simply might be a Google search, their Google business profile, so many of you think many doctors are small business practices, and they potentially have had no marketing for some time, they might not even have a Google business profile there with the correct details. So some of it can be just nearly like some digital hygiene, clean up to make sure that their contact details etc, which is a really good tip, if you're starting out, if someone's listening, and they're starting out in health marketing, just start with your Google business profile, get that done, it is free. And when people Google you, they will at least come to that space, if nothing else, and find them there. And of course, there are some specialties that I would consider a more elective than others. And by that, I mean, if you are unfortunately diagnosed with a really awful illness, or cancer or heart attack, something like that, the medical system will really embrace you and we'll take you along for the ride, you'll get exactly who you need very quickly, and you'll get to see, this in Australia, of course, you'll get the care that you need very quickly. If you've had a really tricky knee for two or three years, and you're thinking about having a knee replacement, that's much more elective, you're, you could take Panadol or Nurofen for a long, long time, or something is going to happen, that changes your mind and makes you
13:25
Elect to see somebody about that. So marketing wise, we need to have the messaging there for those people as well. And a lot of that is about reducing anxiety about what that means because people believe other people's stories that are far from fact. So, you know, if grandpa had a bad knee done 25 years ago, which might have been, you know, 1999 or something, and it didn't go well. But we shouldn't be basing our decisions on that. But people are people and so they do so a lot of the marketing is just about sharing health literacy, which I'm quite passionate about in regards. So a lot of health marketing. It's not about going viral, like we pretty much never ever go viral. We avoid going viral a majority of the time. It's about making patients understand why or what they might need and whether this is the right place for them and removing any anxiety or stress around that appointment time.
Mia Fileman 14:28
Yeah, that is so such a good point that you mentioned about like people are only going to take to the internet to talk about bad experiences. They're not just going to be like Oh, I love my Mirina it's amazing. My Mirina is amazing, right? I mean, I have a mirina and I love the Mirina but I'm not going on to Reddit to talk about how much I love it. I'm going on to Reddit to talk about the horror stories that you hear from Mirina and so yeah, that was such a that's such a good point there is like if you Google is a mirina bad. You're gonna get like that's it.
Claire Hewitt 14:59
Yeah, that's right. That's right. And there's also like, there's some fun as well, not fun. It's fun for marketing people like you and I that, you know, a few years ago I had this really it was, the data doesn't lie is the aspect, right? So you can, if you think of the post has health literacy, and you remove the vanity metrics, so if we remove how many people liked and shared, or whatever it might be, and you look a little bit deeper, I shared a post about breastfeeding for women with big boobs. It looks like a complete and utter no one was interested in case, the reality was, it was a highly read blog post that had significant traffic. The reason for that is if you are a new mum, and you are currently experiencing some difficulty breastfeeding your child. And maybe you're thinking that's because your boobs got so big, potentially they weren't before maybe they were who knows. You see this post, you don't necessarily share it with your friends to say, Hey, guys, great post, let's go check this out. You just go through and you read the article for your own benefit. So in that space, the website traffic did very, very well. People found the information that they needed. And of course, there's a call to action on that. At the end of should people require further assistance. But if you're looking at the metrics on socials, you would have thought it was a complete flop.
Mia Fileman 16:27
No one's going on the internet and say, hey, my uterus is prolapsed
16:35
Yes, exactly. I'd say that's a different thinking in a marketing terms compared to people who are used to selling any kind of product where we just want all eyes on deck
Mia Fileman 16:47
engagement and comments and shares. Yeah, it's actually probably saves, as you said, website traffic to blog posts that are the the key metrics to follow. And so you run campaigns for your clients, which is amazing. We can geek out on that. Campaign is not a pineapple word. It means different things to different people. Pineapple is a pineapple, we know what it means campaign, not so much. So I like to ask everyone on the show. What does the campaign mean to you? What is the campaign?
17:21
It's quite a big question really, isn't it. But I guess for me, I use the term campaigns, when I'm speaking to clients in regards to making it simple. So particularly for me, if I have many of my clients are sole traders. So if I went to them with a marketing strategy, this is our strategy for the next year to two years ahead, one, they won't read it, because they're really busy people. And that document is going to be pages and pages long. And so they'll most likely actually end their contract with me, as soon as they receive that strategy. One, they'll just never read it, they won't get back to me that end. So campaigns are really what I use myself. Or if I'm if the depending how involved the client is, in a way to break up the strategy and say, this campaign here, we're going to focus on and usually we will do one campaign at a time some of them overlap. But we'll generally get one going properly. And it may then continue on forever and a day. Or it may not depending on it because the campaign itself might be let's make a website, that could be our campaign at the beginning. And then if we're bringing that back, it might actually be well, we don't even have a logo. So the first campaign might be actually, we need to look at speaking with the graphic designer on the team and making, What is your logo even look like? How does that look, color palette are we going to so that could be the very first campaign. And then we step through each of it until you know, because keep going and going and working through that space. It might be a referral campaign, because if they come to me and all of that stuff's already done, then we might go, Okay, let's look at your referral base and what's happening in that space and what opportunities are there? And then drill down in that space. Yeah. So for me, it campaigns are nearly the only way I can work with my clients. Without a smaller campaign. I'll be working on the marketing strategy in my head. And I potentially have it written out somewhere and I know, step by step that what we're going to do. So I have one package. It's just called Getting Started in private practice. So it's a package that's literally designed for if you're most of mine are obstetricians that have taken this up. So I'll use them as an example. You're an obstetrician you're about to you've been working in the public system, you've delivered hundreds of babies over the last 15 years probably already in your training and now you think I might go into private practice. So that means you're going since the same as us going from corporate into private practice. So the jumps is big for them as it is for anybody else because when they go to work in public, the babies are coming to them if you opening up your private practice where you can sit there, but you might not have any babies needing to be born. So I literally have a package that I develop, what is your logo look like your color palette, then we move on to your website. Obviously that includes the copywriting. So we do the copy, I don't say to them, I'm now doing a campaign on copywriting. I just do that. Each aspect and then at the end of it, they have their website, their branding, Canva palettes all set up their social media templates, ready their business cards, because they're still very important in, in health and their appointment cards, all of those aspects. And at the end of 12 weeks, everything is done and ready for them. They also have a bio to send. So one of those aspects is, you know, writing a bio to send to other people's websites So there are really many, many campaigns that I package up and get them set out to go. Yeah,
Claire Hewitt 19:24
absolutely brilliant. I've never heard anyone say that campaigns make it simple. It seems like every time I mentioned the word campaign, people just break out in hives, they just think big production, expensive, They just think multi channel. But I really love the way that you have interpreted a campaign, which is the way that I interpret a campaign, which is just, it's a marketing project.
21:18
Yeah, just a bite sized version. And I guess if you said to me, I want a campaign. And it's launching a product or launching a service. And we weren't in marketing. So maybe I'm sitting in a corporate space and someone comes in and says, Okay, I want you to launch this person out into the world, get them patients to come in. I guess that that in itself, like just those words would be hugely daunting. Because where would I even begin? How do I do I need a television campaign? Do I need a radio campaign? Am I going to the movies to put stuff up? Do I need posters in my local shopping center? I don't know what to do there. And if I do, what do they look like? What does that poster look like? What does that business card look like? Where are they? Where's their office even going to be? Is there a sticker on the signage? Okay, what's what's happening. So, if you think of that as a campaign rather than an enormous project, then it would be terrifying. But if you look at that as a giant project and cut it down to campaigns, correct, easy peasy.
Mia Fileman 22:21
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Claire Hewitt 23:33
I know it's really unpopular opinion, because there are a lot of tiny businesses. And I don't mean tiny in a derogative way. I mean, they're not KFC, who really live by that aspect. I guess when it all comes down to it, I find them boring. I find every aspect of them truly and utterly boring if I'm following your page, and you're really strongly following your content pillars, because you've potentially been told by somebody that this is the right thing for you. I'm really bored, and as a marketer, but most of my clients are what I call sticky. So they start with me and they stick around for a really long time. I've got some really long term clients. If I was still using content pillars, or if I had been using content pillars, imagine how bored I would be but also I think it really limits your own creativity. If you sit down, maybe you're, like I batch my content monthly for clients. I actually don't do my own socials because I'm too busy and I must get somebody in to help with that. But that's a whole other story. So let's not don't go looking at my own. If I was batching my own it would be different. But I don't get paid to do that. Anyway, so Like, when you sit down to do your content, even if it's weekly or fortnightly, monthly, etc. Like let your mind freely go, see things throughout your time that make that inspire you have different messaging. And if you looking at content pillars are going to contain your creativity within a boundary that just, it's just not for me. And yes, you can use them as reminders. So potentially, let's say price is one of your things, maybe you're really cheap, or you're I don't know. And you want to continuously remind people of that. That's okay. But how can you do it in a really creative way? All the time. That's not just driving people to scroll past because bored makers scroll just keeps going. I think the other part is, when people get told often enough that you need content pillars, they find it very difficult to hear otherwise. Because I've been told it by many people, like so many people have said, so how can you and I be like, you and I must be wrong, because all of these other people said it. It's a worldwide burn down if you do or don't use content pillars, but
Mia Fileman 26:16
Yeah I think it's just too formulaic. Yeah. To be honest. Like exactly like you said, also, how do you know that that content pillar is actually going to meet any of your objectives? So, you know, three years ago, you decided that Tips and Tricks would be one of your content pillars? How do you know that tips and tricks is actually going to get your customers because for some industry, sharing educational content is is not how you win customers, like you are a done for you agency, you sending sharing educational content, your customers are going to be like Claire, I do not want to do this. I do not have the bandwidth to do this. Don't teach me how to do this, Claire, just come in here and take over. So my approach is we don't have content pillars, because as you said, it's a snooze fest. But every single post that we share across any channel has to be linked to one of our marketing objectives. And this is a conversation I constantly have with Emily. All right. Okay, so we're gonna talk about that. What objective is that serving? Is it a brand awareness objective? Is it a lead generation objective? Is it a conversion objective? Is it a referral marketing? What what objective does this post otherwise it's just content for the sake of content
27:25
Yeah, and I don't mind content for the sake of content. If it's entertaining me in some way. Because entertaining me, is also a way of really connecting me. So if I'm entertained by you, I want to see more of what you've got. And I don't mind if that is attached to your marketing objectives. So if your interest objective might not clearly be entertain our viewers, but if you've got if you're a business, and you've got something to share, that is entertaining, and it doesn't align with an actual objective. I'm here for that still. Because the other part of it is, even though there's so much content coming through, we all know we say the same content often. And a lot of people do not create content. So a large numbers of people scrolling, never create anything. So if you've got something new to throw out there, and maybe it doesn't get huge views, but maybe it was just fun. It's okay to do that. Because 20 people who saw that post are now thinking about you, and what you do, and potentially reminding themselves of how they may or may not use your services at some stage or connect with you. And yeah, so I think it's still okay to share, or to share other people's things. So I often on my stories will share other people's if someone has a new Instagram tip that's come through. And I think that's a great one. I'm not going to sit there and reinvent that. I'm just going to share theirs. Because I align to it, I don't have a goal around, I must share 10 posts per month of other people's content, I see something, I think that's great. I share it through. I also practice on my own Instagram account, my work one with new features of Instagram, and that might be me half cooking dinner, half practicing and sending it live. It might be a bit sloppy. I actually don't care because I'm just playing around with the features to fine tune how it works on my clients accounts. I'm not going to practice on theirs, of course, and sometimes those posts go really, really well.
Mia Fileman 29:27
What an important lesson to not overthink it. Like anytime I tried too hard, none of my content resonates and it's when I'm like, you know, like you said, half wrangling kids I have this moment I pull out my phone I throw something together put it on LinkedIn and yeah 17,000 impressions. Yeah, we especially marketers, and there's a lot that listen to the Got Marketing podcast. Don't overthink it. Like have fun. Remember why you got into marketing in the first place which is that it is creative and it is There is not an exact science. So sometimes you just have to play around until you find what works and you know, it's not going to work forever. So just ride the wave. Oh, I see your point about just entertain me. I will disagree on one exception, which is meme accounts.
Claire Hewitt 30:16
Oh, yeah.
Mia Fileman 30:16
Yeah. Like, honestly, I Okay, so no joke. I had someone who runs a meme account with 35,000 Instagram followers come to me and say, Can you help me earn $1? Because I'm not currently earning. I'm currently earning $0 from 35,000 Instagram followers, and all I shares is memes and funny clips. And I'm like, Yeah okay, let me let me go back on the entertainment. Yeah, when I say entertain me, what I mean is, tell me what you're doing. I don't want to see a Barbie meme with you something I don't want unless you're telling me this is what's happening in Barbie at the moment, I played around with the photo and look how terrible mine is. And you're, you know, you guys should go and have a play with something like that. I don't mean, effectively sharing the same a meme is the same content on millions and millions of different people's accounts. And often they are also trying to be if you've got a really particular audience, which I don't have any clients in, in this bracket. But if you've got, I don't know, maybe a real Gen Zed type audience, your content really needs to be very specific, but and not just your content, but your whole marketing channel needs to have a really specific style. And I was that became obvious to me a couple of weeks back my now 18 year old, was attending a festival here in Melbourne, a music festival. And she was showing me one of the tiktoks that the festival festival, event organisers had put out, which was about organizer, that's a difficult word to remember. They put out basically a staying safe at the festival things to do. And this Tiktok, which was where she was looking at, I'm sure it was probably on reels as well, but it had three, so it had something in the top half of the screen. And then the bottom part of the screen was in three bits. And then the messaging was over the top of it, knowing I think it was like running to a Minecraft screen or something along those lines at the top. Knowing that this audience look at multiple screens multiple times, and how they view things. It was just really, really good. It's not something I could put together. So I don't know that audience and that music festival audience, etc. But I don't even know why I'm telling you this story at the moment. It's about it was entertaining as it's entertaining. It's so their message wasn't just bring sun cream and be hydrated. It was a whole aspect of entertaining them as they're watching them their message about being safe at this festival. So that's what I mean in entertaining. Yeah, Share another tell Taylor Swift Kelsey Travis meme. No, yeah, no. And people save their will save those memes. But they're saving them because they want to go and create a meme like that, it's not going to endear them,
Claire Hewitt 33:06
they've never purchased something never gonna purchase. No, never. Like, I can't even think of a single example of where a meme relates to, especially in a guitar account with heaps of them. If they might get lots of followers, and they might get lots of shares, because you know, you might even share it to your mum, and you might you know, this is a funny one. But I don't have any other purpose.
Mia Fileman 33:29
Yeah. Do you know what's really interesting is just the amount of conversations that I'm having recently, with a lot of brands with huge amount of followers that say that they actually want to try to reduce the number of followers that they have, because they did have a reel go viral, or a meme that got them hundreds of new followers, but it's not the right audience. And now as a result, every single time they post on Instagram, their content is diluted, because it keeps going to the wrong people who are never going to buy from them. So that is so interesting, because we have been focusing on this like vanity metric of let's get to 10,000. Let's get to 20,000. And it is all for absolutely nothing. And one of my friends is also in the in the Facebook group, Kristy, she openly shared that she culls her followers. Like she just culls that definitely. Because, you know, she's trying to get to the right people. Yeah, yeah.
34:23
Which I do as well. I've always called one don't like having people for the sake of people. I don't cull them for no reason. But if you kind of think of even if you've got 100 social followers these days on Meta or wherever your platform is, and you put your post up and they're guaranteeing you might like seven to 10% of those people will see your post.
Mia Fileman 34:45
Is it that high? if 50 I thought it was like 4% I'll probably lower
34:49
but if you've only got say, less than 1000 it's probably around 10% If you've got a small Okay, yeah. Yeah, but that changes all the time. It's still a small number, whatever the number Is it's definitely less less than 15. Yeah, so you put up a post, let's say at the absolute most 15 out of 100 people that follow, you are going to see that post, you need to make sure those people those 15 are potential people who are connected to you in some way. If they don't, even if you've got a business that's based around your physical location, then you need that to be really switched on and having lots of people who are never coming to you, is losing the people who are close to you. At the same time,
Mia Fileman 35:36
agree. 100%. Okay, so you deal with ethical marketing daily in your industry. And it's also my Roman Empire, if you don't know what I mean by that. It's a TIkTok trend
Claire Hewitt 35:48
I do know. Yeah.
Mia Fileman 35:50
So let's talk about that. Because like, you know, we just have two on this show. And recently, you shared a story about mechas beauty loop their loyalty program in the Facebook group. Can we get into that a little bit?
36:04
Sure. So let me give you the background on that. I obviously shop at Mecca, I have two teenage daughters, I have teenage nieces, and they all have friends. And every gift we buy pretty much comes from Mecca, which is fine, I do believe you're a level three. So you're clearly shopping a lot more than I was anyway, often you so you get a message to say it's a loyalty program. Congrats, you've shopped enough, you get a reward, which is called the beauty loop, you go into the store, or you can purchase online, you have to pay $25 make a purchase of $25. If you do it online, and you get your free goodies that come with you come back come to you. So over the last 12 months, I've often gone into my local store when that so you get the email comes through. And often you go in and there is no beauty loop product left. That happens. It's until stocks last that's what it says on the message. So I'd miss out on a few and I thought another email came through and I thought I'm not missing out on this one. So I clicked on the claim your beauty loop here, went straight in made my order ordered a whole stack of other stuff. Of course at the same time, my items arrived. I had no beauty loop. So I messaged, I emailed Mecca. Say, Hey guys, not sure what happened. I didn't get my beauty loop, clicked on the claim now. So when I'm clicking in my head, if I clicked the claim now, majority of times it will auto connect you into your account your claim, not knowing how it works, I hadn't done it online, I didn't get the beauty loop product at that time. However it took them I think it was more than 15 days to reply to my email. So first thing a customer email that takes over two weeks to reply to I think is really long time for something, but let's let that go. And in that email, they said that campaign is over. So you missed out, now obviously sent my email a week prior to the campaign finishing, but they didn't respond. Okay, they did then come back and say I hadn't logged in properly. So when I ordered my Mecca products, I hadn't logged in properly under My Account, and therefore it didn't send me my item. However, if you do log in, it will come in at your cart. So when you go to your cart, it will actually have your beauty loop item there so there's a tip for anyone who's expecting to get their beauty loop it will literally be there. So I then went back and checked my emails and thought well hang on, you're still emailing me about this beauty loop that you know is not actually in stock. So I started emailing them to try and get some greater information.
Claire Hewitt 36:05
And I need to upfront as well that they did in the end say because this has caused some grief, we're sending you the beauty loop item so they did send me that package. But I really wanted to get to the bottom of it feels like and this you know that's it's a big company. So lots of things could happen and there's lots of different people that were talking to me they make a will have no product left for the beauty loop. But they will still email you to say claim your beauty loop even though they know there is nothing left. So I was quite concerned about that fact now if you then click Claim my beauty loop and you go on do the purchase online, it will tell you that your cart will say this is now out of stock. So you will be told at that point that you are out of stock but of course you've already scanned and put over $25 worth in your cart. And then you say okay, there's no beauty loop so you can obviously abandon that card and not make a purchase. However if you thinking I might pop down to the shops, you're now coming in as foot traffic to that store that they potentially no there is no stock for but they're still sending you the email to say coming to store. So I just thought it was a big, big discussion. And potentially it's systems. It's a systems problem for them that I don't know how big, big stores work in that space. But we've got this much stock. And we've got this email marketing campaign. And those things are not talking to each other. What I did know was that I hadn't my account had not claimed my beauty loop. So I would continuously be emailed about that until I claimed it online. Even though they didn't have any stock.
Mia Fileman 40:32
I don't think that you can just be like up, you know, automation is marketing, supply chain is, you know, stock on hand two different departments that don't necessarily talk to each other. So all these goods like there's a responsibility towards, you know, that's your job.
Claire Hewitt 40:53
I don't know how complex that is how, like, how big, this is a big operation? Yeah, like it's lots of stock, lots of shops, lots of customers, we've got an online store, we've got many, many stores out in the open physical stores. How big of a job is that to align? I'm not aware of how I have no concept of what that takes for.
Mia Fileman 41:19
doesn't matter though, how big a job it is, like we make promises in our marketing. And as a result, we need to be able to fulfill those promises. Like the whole concept of a loyalty program is that we reward you for your loyalty. And so the fine print is while stocks last and we're all willing to accept a certain level of okay, I missed out this month, and I may be missed out next month. But from what you have said, You've missed out a lot on your beauty loop. And it's reached a point. Yeah,
41:52
yeah. And when we chatted, yeah, in the chat in the group, many people had too many people have missed out. So I guess one of the aspects for me, which is completely different to a marketing space is one of the things I'm passionate about is looking after young girls and females. So I feel like young women, girls, they're very, it's a really easy place to exploit. For many reasons. Let's just world that we live in. And they're not often noisy about certain things. And they're not noisy about, well, you just missed out. You just missed out again, you just missed out, I've gone in, I've missed out, I've missed out. So they don't often jump up and down about this space. And I probably don't either. I'm not someone who jumps out. But I've kind of really started to irritate me that way. If I was a younger, if I was 21, maybe and I'd been spending all this time and, or and money, I'd probably be spending my disposable income on such products and then to miss out on a regular basis, because maybe they're working or maybe it's midway through the promotional period. It's just Yeah. Doesn't feel fabulous.
Mia Fileman 43:07
No, not at all. It's also I think it's going to backfire for them. And it's it's interesting that we're talking about this now because about 12 months ago, there was a real trend on TikTok to unbox your beauty loop. And I use that as a bit of an opportunity to discuss loyalty programs on TikTok, you know, I was like, Great, I'll take a trending topic. And I'll shoehorn it with some marketing education because that's what I do. And see if I can try to make this educational video a bit more interesting by unboxing my level three beauty loop. And in that video, I talked about how loyalty programs are so expensive for a brand, so complicated to manage, and they don't actually foster that much loyalty if we really look at it and because of reasons that you're talking about now, which is that you get it wrong once or twice and you don't deliver on the beauty loop or it's not what you hoped you were gonna get in the box and you start to see that the quality or the quantity has decreased and all of a sudden we go from being a brand evangelist to I hate this brand because it didn't meet the expectations that I had set. And you know, the problem with these gifts is that even Mecca doesn't have that much control over what goes into these boxes and which suppliers give that to them and all of that so it's a really complicated strategy and so many brands have shut down their loyalty programs for this reason they just say honestly too hard basket to run this and I'm really I'm worried for Mecca because I love them obviously being a beauty loop three member just thanks for airing that out to the money I spend there. But I feel like this is going to be a real problem for them because now all these people who used to love them and now gonna go and talk smack about them online,
Claire Hewitt 45:04
maybe I don't know, I don't feel worried for Mecca. I think that they can manage their way. I think Nico is an amazing success story. And you just have to go in there. And the number of people in their meeting, they've they're doing a lot, right? They've got significant success in that space. It doesn't mean everything is perfect, though. And it doesn't mean there's not room for improvement. And they would have so much data and they would have so much information that they're basing all of these decisions upon. They know exactly how many people are a level one, two, and three, which means they know exactly how many boxes of each thing that they would need to have. And they would know at what point they expected will run out. Yeah, they're gonna have that information. Exactly. No problem.
Mia Fileman 45:47
Very good point.
45:48
So there's decisions being made around and who knows what it is maybe today get 80% of stock in to meet that need? Do they have 50%? I don't know. Is there a percentage that they say, Well, this is how many people after Christmas, are going to meet this this point? That's how many boxes we're going to have. But let's make it an X percent to keep this many people happy? Or do we have more stock online? Do we push people to make the $25 Purchase? I don't know. There's real strategies that unless you're in the Mecca space, you're not going to know. But yeah, it's just it's good for thought in regards to.
Mia Fileman 46:26
I agree with you
Claire Hewitt 46:28
check your cart. Exactly. Yes,
Mia Fileman 46:32
yes, definitely. Well, it has been an absolute pleasure talking with you and que no one is going to believe that this is your first podcast episode, you are an absolute natural. As a result of that, I'm sorry, but now we're gonna have to do this again, in a couple of months. Because, yeah, yeah, no, we are the best conversations that I have on this podcast, usually eventuate to being a second or third or even fourth episode. Like, I'm not about getting all the guests. I just want the same amazing guests. And so that's now you. So let's have a start to think about what we're going to talk about next time.
Claire Hewitt 47:10
I'll keep a list of things that I see.
Mia Fileman 47:13
Yeah, great. And the more shade we can throw, you can just store up my posts. Yeah, yeah, we'll do that too. Okay, that sounds great. Yeah.
47:19
So yeah, it's not a natural. It's not a natural space for me to be in that I've try and look at the learnings from it more than anything else. But anyway, yeah. Wait and see.
Mia Fileman 47:31
Well I loved to this is fantastic. This floated my boat.
47:35
Great. That's good. I hope it comes off.
Mia Fileman 47:37
I'm sure it will. I'm going to put every all of your contact details in the show notes. And if you are a health care professional, or an allied health professional, and you want a kick ass marketing agency, then get on Claire's, extremely long waiting list, because your number will eventually come up. But yeah, it has been such a pleasure talking with you today. And I look forward to doing it again in the future. Thanks Mia. It's been great. Thank you. You listened right up until the end. So why not hit that subscribe button and keep the good marketing rolling. Podcast reviews are like warm hugs. And they're also the best way to support a small business. You can connect with me, Mia Fileman on Instagram or LinkedIn and feel free to send me a message. I'm super friendly.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
