Mia Fileman 0:05
Life’s too short for crap marketing.
The “Got Marketing?” Podcast is for marketers, business owners, and entrepreneurs who want marketing that’s fun, accessible, and meaningful.
Join me, Mia Fileman, for inspired chats with my favourite marketing insiders about marketing that works; campaigns that inspire; and the fads, fakery, and false prophets to avoid.
Hello, friend! Welcome to today’s episode of “Got Marketing?”
In marketing, we love strategy. You are probably familiar with the terms “business strategy,” “marketing strategy,” “brand strategy,” “content strategy,” “social media strategy,” “email marketing strategy,” and “SEO strategy.”
How many strategies do we really like?
This is the conversation I am going to have today with my guest.
“If we are talking social media specifically, there is a ton of noise. Whatever your differentiating value is, we have got to make that very clear right off the bat, and why that is beneficial to the consumer.”
That was Ashley Dreager – a director of marketing and strategy, helping women-owned businesses thrive with strategic marketing.
Welcome to the show, Ashley!
Ashley Dreager 1:20
Thank you! I’m so excited to be here!
Mia Fileman 1:22
I’m so excited to be here, too! This is one of my first overseas podcast interviews. I had to set an alarm to do it which is exciting because it means that the “Got Marketing?” Podcast is going international.
Ashley Dreager 1:37
Yes!
I’m almost surprised to hear that. I would’ve expected to not be the first US-based listener, student, guest – all of that.
Mia Fileman 1:50
We are in about 20 countries, but our footprint is very much Australia.
This year, looking at the analytics, it’s really starting to pick up, and in some really crazy places – the Netherlands and Denmark. Obviously, Australia, New Zealand, and Canada, but I think the US has so many marketing podcasts that it can be a little bit hard to break into that market, but game on! Let’s go!
Ashley Dreager 2:21
Yes, there is a lot of noise, but we can talk about that.
Mia Fileman 2:24
Tell us a little bit about your business. You are a certified director of marketing with a mission to empower women-led businesses. Why specifically women? Tell us a little bit more about that.
Ashley Dreager 2:36
Yes, it has been an evolving journey – as with most businesses.
I started freelancing a little over three years ago now and have really started focusing on marketing over the last two years. I got my certification to be a director of marketing and have been focused very heavily on startups and small businesses.
I love working with women-owned businesses. I love working with businesses who are in the sustainability space, eco-friendly, and really looking to make a positive impact in the world – whether it’s in human rights or social issues or even smaller-scale things at home like cleaning products, cloth diapering, or anything in that space.
It really lights up my marketing excitement.
Mia Fileman 3:26
Because you can relate to it probably as a mum.
As a woman, I found it really difficult when I was running an agency to get excited about mining, construction, or self-managed superfunds. It was not my jam.
Ashley Dreager 3:45
Definitely.
Something I have always believed in is that, when it comes to sales – and I think marketing and sales are so closely tied together; they are not the same but one without the other – to really sell something, you have to believe in it.
It’s really hard to sell something that you don’t see the value in, or you don’t see truly benefiting whoever is going to be using it or consuming it. Those things are near and dear to my heart. Having those in the personal side of my life, make it very easy to bring in the creativity and the marketing for them.
Mia Fileman 4:20
Yes.
I was at a networking event here in Darwin. Darwin is right in the top of Australia. It is a construction town – mining, defence. I was at this networking event. I spent 30 minutes talking to a bloke because he wanted help with his social media. After 30 minutes, I still couldn’t really explain to you what he did.
He was like, “So, do you think you can help me with my LinkedIn post?” I was like, “Look, mate. I just don’t think I can because you’ve explained it to me three times how you automate lights in a house, and I don’t get it, so I don’t think I can sell it.”
We are going to talk about one of our favourite topics that brought us together – marketing strategy.
This is loaded. There is so much to unpack. I want to get into it with you. Let’s start with something that’s potentially easy.
What exactly is a marketing strategy in your terms, Ashley?
Ashley Dreager 5:30
I really look at a marketing strategy as your intentional plan to take you from where you’re at in your business to where you want to be which is achieving whatever goals you have set out for yourself.
I don’t want to say strictly income and sales goals – although that is usually at the core of what most people come to me looking for support with their marketing for – but there are so many other things that you could be looking to achieve with your marketing efforts.
The strategy is really just knowing what you are going to be doing, when you are going to be doing it, why you are going to be doing it, and how that relates back to whatever your goals are for your marketing and for your business.
Mia Fileman 6:07
I love that! That’s actually quite concise!
People can be three minutes deep into a description and still not really tell me.
What are some of the things that you think you need to include in a marketing strategy? You mentioned what you need to be doing and how you need to be doing it. Can you get a little bit more specific topline?
Ashley Dreager 6:30
I work primarily with service-based businesses. I do some product-based but speaking mostly to the service-based industry.
For me, the marketing strategy really comes down to three things – who your ideal client is, what your offers are, and what your messaging is. To me, that really encompasses anything that you are going to be doing with your marketing and with your marketing strategy.
What content are you going to be creating? Who are you going to be talking to? What are you selling? Why do they care about what you are selling? What are their pain points? What are their desires? All of that really gets covered in those three categories.
Whenever I am working with somebody, I usually always start with those three – typically, the offers, if we are getting very specific. There are so many different people, so many different groups that you could be speaking to, but ultimately, your offer or what you are selling is specific to your skill set which isn’t nearly as easily adjusted versus the specific demographic or the target group that you are speaking to.
Mia Fileman 7:30
How do you go about working with them about making sure that their offer is going to resonate with that target audience? What goes into that?
Ashley Dreager 7:41
Usually, when people come to me, they have already validated their offer in some way. It is not usually a brand-new, never-tested, never-explored concept. Usually, when I am talking to them, I ask, “What are people saying about your services? What are they saying about your offers? What questions are they asking you? What feedback are you getting?”
When they come to you to start working with you – with your services or your offers – what specifically are they saying that they want help overcoming? Why are they connecting with you in the first place? That usually brings it down to the most foundational level to everything else.
That is where we can really get deeper into what are their pain points, what are their desires, what are they struggling with, what are the challenges, and all of those different pieces.
Mia Fileman 8:27
Yes, fabulous!
Then we come to the crux of the issue. Is there one marketing strategy? Is there a strategy for every channel? Do you need a brand strategy and a marketing strategy and a content strategy and a digital strategy? Can you talk me through your views?
I know that a million billion marketers that exist don’t all get into a room and agree. In fact, we never agree on anything. I think most marketers are marketers in quotation marks. I’d love to hear your view on this, Ashley. How many strategies do we need?
Ashley Dreager 9:10
I love this question!
People are probably going to hate my answer, but I think it depends.
I think it depends on the size of the business, the needs, the scale, the size of the offer, and all of those things. For example, SEO strategy – you don’t need an SEO strategy if you don’t have a website. That’s going to be where a lot of the SEO strategy is going to come in for. Sure, we can talk about landing pages or that kind of stuff that’s Google searchable, but depending on what you are marketing.
My answer would probably start with you need the marketing strategy to know what other strategies you need, but I don’t think that you need to start out with having every single one of those strategies. I think you start with your main strategy then add those pieces in as you need them.
If you’re first starting out in your business, you’re a solopreneur or freelancer, you probably don’t need a brand strategy nearly as much as you need the business or the marketing strategy. If you’re seven figures or multi seven figures, you probably need a brand strategy at that scale or at that size, but it depends on a lot of other factors.
It’s not going to be black and white, cut and dry, because it’s a test – a nine-letter word for test.
Mia Fileman 10:23
I love that! That’s so good!
I agree. I think we have worked ourselves into this bundle with this idea of strategies and people have been paralysed because they don’t have one and are constantly self-flagellating because they don’t have one or they don’t have what they think one is which is a 90-page Word document that costs them $10,000 and sits in a drawer that they never look at.
I feel like it’s become a barrier to people’s success. People think strategy and they start to break out in hives because it sounds complicated, it sounds expensive, and it sounds like you need a million one of them, so I really like your no-nonsense approach to what you need and nothing else.
You work with service-based businesses, a couple of years into business. Can you talk us through what a typical roadmap would look like? “We start with our marketing strategy.” What would then come next?
Ashley Dreager 11:33
When I am first building out a strategy for someone, I always try to get what they are comfortable with a monthly budget being to implement that strategy.
Like you said, it is great having this beautifully crafted, articulate slide deck of a marketing strategy that outlines all of these things, but if there is no implementation on the back end of it, it does not matter. It is a waste of money, right?
Knowing that monthly budget and capacity for the business and the team to implement it, that is where the conversation gets directed when I am presenting them the strategy that I have built out.
How much content do they want to create versus how much content do they want me to be creating? Do they already have a team that is going to be doing everything for them? Do we need to hire a team?
It really depends on what that strategy looks like, how much money they have to implement it, and how much time and interest they have of doing it themselves. It is always a balance of those three.
If you cannot be consistent with it, then we need to adjust that strategy to figure out a different way to accomplish whatever goals we are going to be set up to achieving.
Mia Fileman 12:42
Absolutely.
Doing something once is not going to get the job done, right?
Ashley Dreager 12:48
Oh, my goodness!
With how much is going out these days, the number of times that people need to see an offer or see something from a brand before they are willing to take an action is growing from what it was a couple of years ago.
Mia Fileman 12:59
I think it’s sitting at about 30 touchpoints before people are ready to take action after hearing about something.
Ashley Dreager 13:06
It used to be seven.
Mia Fileman 13:07
That’s right.
Yes, the Mad Men era. Bring back the chain-smoking and the rule of seven!
No, don’t bring back the chain-smoking.
We start with our marketing strategy which answers some big questions like “Who are you serving? What do you want to be known for? What are your offers? What are your key messages?” We then need to look at how we apply that to particular channels.
We have a program called Nail your Email Marketing Strategy which is all about going, “Great! You’re going to use emails. How?”
What role is email marketing going to play sitting underneath the overarching marketing strategy in order to help achieve those goals? What are we going to use emails for? Is it for nurturing our audience? Is it for building our audience? Is it for converting our audience?
How many emails are we going to send? What are we going to put in them? How are we going to segment our audience in order to make sure that we are getting the right messages to the right people at the right time? How much are we going to invest in email marketing?
This is what strategy is.
It’s not what trending audio you’re going to apply to your reel today. The strategy is the decisions. Do you agree?
Ashley Dreager 14:33
Absolutely!
It’s knowing why you’re doing something versus following all of the gurus that say you should be doing this. Everyone says you should have email marketing as part of your strategy, but why? What is the intention behind that?
To take that another step, marketing changes constantly. We still have the very foundational pieces that have been very consistent for years and years, but without knowing why you’re using that or how that’s tying into your overall goals or the bigger picture, it’s harder to make those adjustments when trends change.
If you’re just using trends as your marketing strategy, you’re always going to be behind the curve. You’re always going to be chasing something else versus strategically thinking, “This is why we’re using email marketing… because our ideal customer does X, Y, and Z. Let’s try this to get to the same outcome that’s maybe more cost-effective or less time-consuming or whatever the case may be.”
Knowing why you’re using that versus just following the “should” helps you to make decisions more intentionally.
Mia Fileman 15:46
Absolutely, yes, and how you’re going to use it.
Part of the strategy is saying, “I’m going to be on Pinterest. On Pinterest, I’m going to run ads. I’m going to run $5,000 of ads every single month, then I’m going to use those ads for lead generation because that’s what Pinterest is good for.”
In service-based businesses, it’s not great for conversion. It’s great for conversion for product-based businesses. You need some of that analysis. You need to know that about Pinterest. You need to go and do your research.
We don’t write strategies in a vacuum, without any data, without any insights, without any inputs in order to create this strategy. Now that we know that Pinterest is not great for converting for service-based businesses – and we’re both service-based businesses – then we are going to use what Pinterest is good for which is essentially a search engine. We’re going to run lead generation ads to our website so that it works a little bit like Google.
That’s the beginning of a Pinterest marketing strategy. We can get specific from there, but that’s what I would put on a slide.
Ashley Dreager 16:59
Yes, it brings that full journey in of where you’re starting, the different steps or milestone that somebody is going to take to achieve a desired outcome.
Mia Fileman 17:10
All right. Any final thoughts about the quantity, quality of strategies before we move on?
Ashley Dreager 17:18
Yes, I want to mention that a lot of the online space has made strategy seem complex and that you have to hire everyone in order to have effective marketing to get good results. As a marketer, as somebody who would sell marketing services, I don’t think that that’s true. Everybody makes it seem to complex. It doesn’t have to be.
There’s definitely a time and place for hiring specialists and experts. I’m not an SEO expert. I would hire somebody if I were bringing SEO into my strategy. Like I said before, you don’t have to have everything to get results.
Start with what you can be very consistent with and add things in as you need, hire out as you need, versus having everything done right at the very get-go and expecting to see very quick ROI on a short time span.
Mia Fileman 18:15
Also, we need to talk about the elephant in the room.
Traditionally, we’d create a strategy before we would start going. Before you actually started running your business, you would actually have a strategy, but that was because we were launching into known markets.
An accountant was building an accounting practice. The path for how to go from zero to a full-scale traditional accounting practice was pretty well-laid. Likewise, if you were launching a product into a supermarket in Australia, millions of brands have done that before, so we can see what strategies have worked and what haven’t work.
Now, we’re dealing with online businesses. We’re launching into markets that don’t exist yet. We’re creating those markets. We’re creating those products. We’re productising services that haven’t been done before.
What would have been the point of Uber writing a comprehensive marketing strategy before they actually started running this disruptive business model? I read about this in the Harvard Business Review that startups and online businesses that are building categories and markets need to have this mentality of always being in beta. That’s where we live because we are making this up as we are going along. We are literally building the plane while it is in the sky.
I think that’s an even bigger argument for why you should start light. Start with those three things that you mentioned rather than overinvesting in a strategy where you don’t have as much of the inputs as an established brand would have because you are forging a new category.
You are making this up as you are going along. We need to talk about that.
Ashley Dreager 20:09
Absolutely!
When you are first starting out, there is still a benefit to having an intentional plan that you are putting together – knowing why you are doing something so that you can be very consistent with it – but the strategies that I would write for a brand-new startup do not look the same versus somebody who is already in seven figures.
For somebody who is already in seven figures, we are going to be talking a lot more about a SWOT analysis, a situation analysis, versus someone who is maybe the only person on the team or have one other person. I am probably not going to go nearly as deep into those areas because I don’t think they are as relevant. They are going to be the exact same – or very similar – for a lot of startups versus somebody has been in business for three to five years plus and is at those higher revenue levels.
Like I said, knowing what you are doing, why you are doing it, and being consistent. Take that data and evolve it. Make some adjustments.
Mia Fileman 21:10
Agreed.
I have got another view on this that I also was reading recently about this notion.
You have got your marketing strategy which is the most important part. You and I agree on that. When it comes to applying that to all different channels – social media, email marketing, PR, SEO – you can ask yourself one question: “How can I be of value to my audience?”
How can I use email to be of value to my audience? How can I use social media to be of value to my audience? How can I use search engine optimisation to be of value to my audience?
I can make it so that it is really easy for them to get to where they are going – label things, give good headings, and all of that. I really like that.
In preparation for this chat with you, I have been thinking about how we have one marketing strategy. It is quite big because we add the other channels to the back of it, but it really comes down to that value-based strategy. “How am I going to use email marketing to be of value to my audience?”
If you approach it from that perspective, then you are always going to hit the nail on the head because you are always serving that target audience.
Ashley Dreager 22:33
I love that! That’s a very interesting question to think about when you are creating your own content and when you are putting your own marketing strategy together or when you are working with clients. It really cuts through a lot of the noise to get very specific on what that customer wants and need to hear. That is how you are going to stand out.
Mia Fileman 22:51
Yes, and there are lots of different ways to deliver value.
It is not just about educating them.
Ashley Dreager 22:57
In long-form content.
Mia Fileman 23:01
That’s right!
Ashley Dreager 23:02
200 characters and an Instagram post.
Mia Fileman 23:05
If you inspire me, that is valuable to me. If you entertain me, that is valuable to me. If you and I are building a personal connection from across the world, then that is valuable to me.
There are lots of different ways to deliver value, but the goal of my social media account, the goal of my email account is ultimately to serve my audience, right?
Ashley Dreager 23:29
Yes!
Mia Fileman 23:30
Food for thought.
Ashley Dreager 23:31
I like that.
Mia Fileman 23:33
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Recently, you completed Campaign Classroom with 19 other Aussies. I would love to hear your observations and how you felt from that 10-week program and how female founders in Australia differ to the US because that is the next frontier for Campaign Del Mar – breaking more into the US market.
What were your observations?
Ashley Dreager 24:47
There were a lot of similarities. I did not feel out of place at all in Campaign Classroom. I felt like I fit in very easily – aside from the accent! I am sure that stood out like a sore thumb! But there were a lot of similarities.
I really appreciated the higher-level conversations that we had inside of Campaign Classroom. It felt very thought-provoking with everyone that was inside of Campaign Classroom. Compared to a lot of the other programs that I have been a part of that were more US-based, that was not nearly as consistent. It really depended on the level of investment that I would have had to make for a US-based program.
I really appreciated the type of conversation and the depth of the conversation that everybody was interested in having inside of Campaign Classroom. Every week, it felt like I got more and more value.
I think I mentioned this before, but my entire investment was worth it in the first video, the first module that you put together in Campaign Classroom.
Mia Fileman 25:57
She is not paid to say that. I am thrilled to hear that! That is fantastic!
Everyone knows Campaign Classroom is my third baby.
That is Campaign Classroom – that high-level, thought-provoking conversation. We do knock back more people than we take onto the program because it is not supposed to be 101. It is not tier-one marketing education. It is tier-two and tier-three.
I am glad that that’s actually coming along. Was there anything personality-wise or humour-wise? I hear that Australians are so sarcastic and are constantly cracking jokes – even in business environments – whereas Americans are a bit more professional. Is that true? Or is this some myth that has prevailed?
Ashley Dreager 26:47
I would say that did prove to be true from the round of Campaign Classroom that I was in. There wasn’t anything negative or inappropriate or anything like that, but there were some conversations and remarks which felt very casual in a good way.
I think I came in very reserved. “How is everybody going to be conducting themselves? What are the types of interactions that we are going to have?” Everyone was very friendly. It felt like everybody already knew each other going into this.
Mia Fileman 27:24
Yes, that’s interesting.
When I listen to US-based female marketing leaders like Amy Porterfield or Marie Forleo, they sound so polished and so professional. I didn’t think that that resonates as well in Australia. I think that that just seems unapproachable to us – that big-stage business. I want someone I feel I can relate to.
What are your thoughts on that?
Ashley Dreager 27:57
It’s interesting that you say that because I think a lot of US consumers and business owners feel that same way. For me, it was a big barrier in showing up on my own social media pages because I would be listening to those podcasts and think that that is how a professional is supposed to conduct themselves in front of an audience or those who are following them. That’s not me.
I am very laidback and casual. I don’t think of myself as very articulate all the time with this very large vocabulary. I think that there is a shift in the US market right now where they are calling BS on that a little bit more. They are wanting more of the real and raw.
You are an everyday average person that is inspiring them to think about things differently or teaching them something but not in an “I am higher than you” way, if that makes sense.
Mia Fileman 29:00
Yes, that is so interesting.
I think I did see something about Amy Porterfield. She launched on TikTok not too long ago saying that she is trying very hard to not have her hair and makeup perfect for every TikTok video, not having it absolutely scripted because her podcast is scripted down to the last letter. There are no “ums” and “ahhs!” There is no adlibbing. It’s edited down to the last letter as well.
I think it’s going to be really interesting to see how that goes for her and whether she becomes a bit more approachable or whether she is too far in the grooves of this professional being. She’s fabulous, but it’s a very different style to mine, and it sounds like it’s very different to yours as well.
Ashley Dreager 29:52
Yes, that will be very interesting to watch.
Do you remember the big trend change on Instagram where everything was very polished and very perfect? Everyone was like, “That is not real life. I don’t want to see that.” Then, the big trend changed to “this is my messy home, this is my morning hair” and that kind of appearance. It seems like that is where a lot of the other channels are starting to catch up to or starting to show more of.
Mia Fileman 30:20
Yes, it’s interesting to see that play out on TikTok. There is still very much this big influencer. They are all beauty influencers or fashion influencers. It’s the “get ready with me” videos. They have this perfect makeup by the end but, at the beginning, they just rolled out of bed.
There are still some of them that are portraying this perfect life, but there is this massive cohort of creators on TikTok that are exactly like you said. They are cleaning their house and filming it.
We are watching it and going, “This is so satisfying – watching someone deep clean a bathroom! Her roots are showing. She’s in her activewear.” Then, we get ready with her, and she lights a scented candle. I’m like, “I really enjoyed that! That was cathartic!”
I think about some of the big TikTok influencers like Elyse Myers. I don’t think I’ve ever seen her wear makeup. I don’t think I’ve ever seen her try to polish anything. She is hilarious and insanely relatable. In a way, I feel like TikTok is dictating the trend that the rest of the social media channels are going to go, and I am here for it! I think it’s great.
If TikTok can start to influence Instagram and make it more authentic and relatable, I am so here for it.
Ashley Dreager 31:43
I completely agree.
I think it’s just a matter of time because TikTok has been leading those trends, especially with the trending reels and what your people are choreographing and trending audio.
I was very late to the TikTok game. I don’t create on TikTok, but I consume TikTok, and it’s very interesting to see all of those trends on TikTok and when they translate over into my Instagram feed, but – for me, at least – by the time it shows up on Instagram, it’s old and outdone. I’m like, “This is really boring. I’ve been watching this for a month on TikTok. Now, I don’t care to see it on Instagram.”
Mia Fileman 32:22
Yes, something gets lost in translation. When we take it from three minutes to 60 seconds and apply an Instagram filter, it loses its lustre, to be honest.
Ashley Dreager 32:34
It does!
Mia Fileman 32:36
Just like Americans probably need to tone it down a little bit, Australians need to tone it up a little bit. I feel like I listen to a lot of business podcasts. I am also asked to be on a lot of business podcasts.
When I listen, I am like, “Did you try at all to clean this up a little bit?” It seems like we have leaned too far into the scrappy “just hit record, have a conversation with someone, and whatever happens happens” stream of consciousness. I mean, I like that.
I don’t feel like you should heavily edit your podcasts, but I did a great podcast interview with Dan Monheit from Hardhat Agency, and he was so surprised that a 45-minute podcast episode for me is a 45-minute recording. He’s like, “What? We record for 45 minutes to get a 15-minute episode!” I’m like, “No, I don’t have that kind of editing cash to splash.”
I don’t believe in a heavily edited podcast.
I was listening to one the other day where they were talking over each other, they were laugh-talking, and they completely stuffed up a section. This is really easy these days with technology to cut that out and give the people the good stuff. As a result of all of that fluff, it was a 48-minute episode.
We don’t have that kind of time. That’s the reason to cut it out. It’s not because people want to hear polished perfection. It’s just that they don’t have that kind of time to sit there and consume what is essentially getting in the way of the great conversation.
Anyway, that’s my opinion when it comes to Australian content.
Ashley Dreager 34:30
It is probably a very fine balance of showing the authenticity without taking away from that value. I know for myself, I am home full-time with two toddlers, so I don’t have the luxury of casually listening to 60 minutes of dead air – for a lack of a better term. I like the authenticity and the banter back and forth, but there needs to be more of the value versus the “I don’t know what I’m listening to.”
Mia Fileman 35:00
Yes.
Like almost everything in business, it’s a Goldilocks solution where we look at what our US counterparts are doing, and we’re like, “That’s a bit too Anthony Robbins for me!” We look at the scrappy “it’s clear I’m recording in my spare bedroom closet” in Australia and find this nice middle ground where we are like, “How can I give the people what they want – the value – without too many distractions, without it having to be this big stage production?”
Ashley Dreager 35:32
That’s one of the things that I loved about your podcast when I first found it.
Like you said, a lot of the US business podcasts feel very stuffy to me. There are tons of value – don’t get me wrong – but they almost feel like work to be listening to versus almost every episode that I listened to on your podcast felt like it was a fun way to consume marketing information and keep up with marketing conversations.
Mia Fileman 36:00
Thank you!
Again, she’s not paid to say this.
Any tips for people looking to break into the US market? Lots of Australian entrepreneurs – and I’m sure even Danish and Dutch entrepreneurs – are wanting to break into this massive US market. Any thoughts from someone on the ground? You are in Boston, is that right?
Ashley Dreager 36:24
Seattle.
There’s a lot of noise. If we’re talking social media specifically, there’s a ton of noise. Whatever your differentiating value is, we’ve got to make that very clear right off the bat and why that’s beneficial to the consumer.
I don’t know if I should say this on the podcast, but I think it’s probably well-known in the world that Americans are very self-centred. This is a conversation that you and I had before I joined Campaign Classroom. We want to know how this is going to benefit me because, if it’s not going to benefit me, I may or may not continue to watch it or consume it.
That’s the reality.
Mia Fileman 37:06
I love that. It’s so true.
We were having this conversation about the pricing of Campaign Classroom. You saw the price and were like, “I assume it’s US dollars.” That’s my bad for not actually putting the currency on there because my audience is beyond Australia. You were like, “No, I think it’s self-centred Americans thinking all pricing is in US dollars.”
Ashley Dreager 37:35
Afterwards, I realised, “Why would I think an Australia-based business is going to promote everything in US dollars? That doesn’t make sense!”
Mia Fileman 37:44
But since then, we have updated all the pricing to reflect the two dollars because that was such a great insight for me. I really value that.
I think that – exactly what you said – getting to the good stuff straight away in terms of what is your differentiation or what is your point of difference is so important because there are literally a million businesses doing what you are doing.
They could have been doing it for longer than you and are more established. They could be outspending you. They could have better connections than you do. They could live in a bigger city where there are more opportunities to meet with people. It has become a very competitive business. A lot of people are starting businesses because they don’t want to have full-time jobs.
Playing it safe is very risky. I have said that on about 20 of my podcast episodes because I believe it to my core.
Ashley Dreager 38:41
And it’s just bland and boring.
Mia Fileman 38:44
There’s that, too.
It’s bland. It’s boring. It’s just another Instagram coach or another gift hamper company or another accountant working with businesses on their tax returns.
I spoke at a retreat a couple of weeks ago. When I talk at these events, I start conservative a little bit, then 20 minutes in, it’s all out the window and I’m telling it how it really is.
I said to this room of 70 people that I had never met before, “If any one of you comes and tells me that your point of difference is quality, I am going to hunt you down, and I am going to find you, because quality is not a source of competitive advantage. Quality is the minimum requirement to be in business!”
They were like, “Oh, my god! We let her in here! Did someone actually pay her to come here and dress us down?” I was like, “Yes! Hit me! I’m the problem. It’s me!”
Ashley Dreager 39:53
Oh, my gosh! I love that!
The features of an offer are not the competitive advantage. Anybody can offer call times. Anybody can offer that grouping of features for an offer. But what makes yours different?
Mia Fileman 40:10
Yes. Do you have an example from you or from one of your clients?
Ashley Dreager 40:17
Yes, I built a strategy recently for somebody who builds out project management workspaces. It was interesting coming up with hers because there are a lot of people that offer ClickUp builds, so doing it very quickly isn’t necessarily a unique value proposition. It’s not differentiating value.
For hers, I really put in her unique experience as an online business manager and going through the ClickUp certification. It gives her the ability to look at a business’ overall processes and systems, immediately see those gaps, and work that into the ClickUp builds.
Mia Fileman 40:51
I love that! That’s better!
I have heard that it’s quite difficult to get a ClickUp certification. There’s not a lot of people in Australia that have that. It’s quite a lengthy process. I really like that you used that proof point – that we will do this and the proof that we can do this is the certification. Fabulous!
To finish us off, tell us about your upcoming campaign that you worked on during Campaign Classroom.
Ashley Dreager 41:20
Oh, my goodness! I am so excited for this campaign to go live!
It’s called I am Your Navigation System. It is really honing in on the fact that your marketing strategy is the roadmap to success in your business. It outlines where you’re at, your starting point, Point A to Point B, your goals, your destination, and really leaning into that theme of it being the map but still needing someone to navigate you through the map.
For example, if you’re driving the car, you’re the driver there, but if you’re trying to look at a paper map or even a digital map or GPS and you’re trying to listen to all of those commands and trying to process it all at the same time, you’re going to miss a turn.
Something isn’t going to go the way that you planned versus if you had someone there, looking at the map, reinforcing all of the turns, the roads to take, you’re going to get there so much faster. It’s going to be less gas. It’s going to be less time. It’s going to be less frustration.
I’m going to be your navigation system to reading your marketing strategy and directing you as a business owner through all of the ups and downs, the roadblocks, the closures – all of that.
Mia Fileman 42:33
Oh, my god! I love it! I love an analogy! It is so clever!
Strategy is this unruly, intangible thing, but you have made it really tangible by making it this journey. As you said, the roadblocks, the turnoffs, the U-turns, and even the gas which we call petrol. Gas? Who puts gas in their car? Petrol or diesel. There are so many diesel cars in Australia! Anyway, that’s so good!
Talk us through the visual identity of this campaign. What have you landed on?
Ashley Dreager 43:14
We are going to be using vintage travel style posters for the visual. I love it!
We created a very unique – I shouldn’t say it’s very unique – I mean, vintage travel art deco style. I was very impressed with our ability to create them in Canva. We were very scrappy with how we put all of this together versus having advanced Photoshop skill sets.
There are so many amazing tools available to put some really amazing pieces together. Utilising that with a lot of travel video B-roll for reels, maps for Carousell posts, dotted lines to show you the path that we’re going to be taking.
It’s very different from what I normally would be putting out on my business social media. Typically, as you would expect, it would be very polished, clean Canva templates. This is a total 180 from what you would expect to see coming out from my brand.
I’m very excited about it. It’s announcing the agency that I will co-launch. It’s a full-service marketing and operations agency. This is going to be the way that I’m announcing it to my personal brand.
Mia Fileman 44:39
Amazing!
The way you capture attention is by doing something different, something new. That 180 is what’s required. Otherwise, your audience are like, “Okay! It’s another post from Ashley! It’s another marketing tip. It’s a regular day.” Now, it’s not a regular day.
Ashley Dreager 45:00
Oh, my goodness! I feel like everybody that sees that when it first goes out will be like, “Wait! Who is this? What is that?” I am very excited.
Mia Fileman 45:08
That’s how we pique people’s interest and draw them in. As a result, they are willing to spend time with that. That’s our job as marketers! “How do we get people to spend time with our content – enough time that we can entice them to spend more time and ultimately part with some money?”
First, we need to stop that scroll. The first job we have as a marketer is to get them to pause for a minute so that we can tell them a few things because they are not even giving us that anymore.
Ashley Dreager 45:42
No, everything is seconds.
Mia Fileman 45:44
Seconds, exactly!
What is your channel strategy for I am Your Navigation System? What channels are you launching on?
Ashley Dreager 45:53
Instagram is the main social media platform. We have created a new opt-in for email marketing. We’ve got email going out. We’ve got blogs. There’s going to be ads. We’re trying to cover all of the bases here.
This is going to be the biggest launch for content that I have done personally for my own brand.
Mia Fileman 46:16
So exciting!
Thank you for entrusting me with that big next step in your marketing journey! It was such a pleasure and honour to build this campaign by your side. I didn’t do anything. You did it all. But to sit there and be like, “Yes, that’s awesome! Let’s do that!”
Ashley Dreager 46:34
You were an amazing sounding board!
Mia Fileman 46:37
I love that it’s integrated and multichannel. That’s exactly what is required when we talk about these 30 touchpoints that you require in order to get people to sit up and take action.
Ashley Dreager 46:49
Right.
Mia Fileman 46:50
Ashley, it was such a pleasure to chat to you.
How can people get in touch?
Ashley Dreager 46:55
Instagram is where I am going to be most active. My Instagram is @ashleydreager. I would love for you to send me a message on there. Just say hi. Let me know where you’re from. If you’re listening from Australia or Denmark or another country, I’d love to hear.
Mia Fileman 47:12
Fantastic! I’m going to link everything in the show notes. I’ll even put the new opt-in for your campaign as soon as that launches.
Thank you once again for imparting your wisdom with us and sharing your time with us, Ashley. It was fabulous!
Ashley Dreager 47:28
Thank you so much for having me! It was a blast!
Mia Fileman 47:30
Thank you!
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Podcast reviews are like warm hugs. They’re also the best way to support a small business. You can connect with me, Mia Fileman, on Instagram or LinkedIn. Feel free to send me a message! I’m super friendly.
